Jb bore paste

J

jaybic

Guest
Hello all,

I have an Browning Microhunter in 22-250. It is my favorite coyote calling rifle as it is very short(20 in bbl) and light to carry all day but I have a problem.

I shot it after a very thorough cleaning with sweets and then butchs bore shine and it produced a 5 shot sub 1in group @100yds which for a calling rifle, I can live with. I have gotten the occasional .5 or less group with it but it pretty rare and it, from day 1 has never really shot stellar. Mostly around that .75-1.25 size.

Anyway, then it accuracy starts to fall off quickly. I shot 9 five shot groups that day and 2 were under a quarter and the other seven were in that 1.5-2.5 size. Is it getting fouled that fast or could there be another problem?

I took it to my gunsmith and he thinks it is bedded just fine(in epoxy and snug) and everything was tight but maybe I got it hot (pencil barrel)pd hunting or shooting to quickly at the range with not enough cool down time in between groups. He said a clean barrel should have a mirror-like appearance. He also said that the throat looked fine but the first few inches of rifling looked very "dark" and that indicated very heavy copper and some sort of pitting(not erosion), maybe from getting it hot and not cleaning enough for that small a barrel.

He said to clean it real good with what ever I normally use and then us JB bore paste to kind of "lap" or polish up the barrel and then to do another "break in" all over again.

What would be the procedure here? How often, how long, will it hurt the bore if I use it too much or too often?

I have never used the Jb stuff before but I bought both the paste and the Jb bore brite finisher stuff.

I am trying to figure out if my rifle has an mechanical issue, I am doing something wrong or maybe thats just all the better it will ever shoot in which case I will rebarrel it.

I am left handed so resale value on it is nothing or I would just buy a new rifle.

Whats a fella do here? Is it possible to have a sporter weight rifle that will do .5 at least somewhat regularly or am I dreaming?

Sorry so long but I wanted to provide as much detail as possible to get the best return ideas.

Thanks for your time,

Jamie
 
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You don't say how many rounds are through the barrel, but if it's upward of 2000 in a .22-250 the throat could be getting rough. That will lead to heavy jacket fouling pretty quickly which will reduce accuracy just as fast. Using JB Bore Paste will smooth some of the roughness in a barrel, but if there's erosion in the throat I doubt that it'll remove it. If the whole barrel is rough it will smooth that a little, but not entirely eliminate it.

I've found that it's best to clean a barrel every 20 rounds (max) or the accuracy can (will?) go south.

When I use either JB product I push two patches wet with either Kroil or bore solvent through the barrel, then with a wraparound style jag and a patch wrapped around the jag wet it with whatever I used on the two previous patches and JB applied to the patch. I push the JB'd patch through the bore from throat to muzzle (being careful to just let the patch poke out the muzzle so that it can be pulled back into the bore), then pulled back into the throat. I repeat this 12 times, and if the barrel is badly fouled put some more JB on the patch and repeat with 12 passes through the bore. Others may do it differently, but this has worked for me for a long time. After you've finished with the JB push four patches wet with whatever was originally used through the bore to clean out the JB. Then three dry patches. If you run a patch wet with Hoppe's #9 or Butch's Bore Shine through the bore and let the rifle sit for 8 to 24 hours then run another wet patch through the bore you'll be able to see if there's blue from copper fouling on the last patch. Always use a cleaning rod quide when cleaning too!

You might have a rough bore, and/or a rough throat, which can best be solved with a new barrel. If a thorough cleaning gets the rifle shooting satisfactorily my suggestion would be to clean more often. If you use Hoppe's #9 or Butch's you can leave them in the bore for at least a day without harming the bore, and although it might take three or four days (a couple wet patches a day to replenish the used solvent and remove dissolved copper) you can keep a barrel fairly copper free. Barrels don't last forever, and a new custom barrel is less expensive than a new rifle and more satisfactory than any factory barrel.

Finally, I can't see why the barrel would need to be broken in again after cleaning with JB since the purpose of breaking in is mainly to remove burrs left from chambering. Maybe I just ain't too smart though. :D
 
Thanks Larry,

I suppose it has maybe 1000 rounds thru it +/-. I have had it about 3 yrs. Its been on 2 pd hunting trips...maybe 250 rounds each and then just regular weekend load testing and 3 coyote hunting seasons so maybe 1500 rnds max.

My gunsmith says the throat looks fine...no erosion at all according to him. I do use a bore guide also. I just feel like it should shoot better that it does. A 2.5 inch group at 100 yards is a clean miss on a 300 yard coyote standing looking straight at me and that is not good enough. Factor in shooting off shooting sticks on the side of a hill with a bit of North Dakota wind mixed in and you come up empty even with a good shooting rifle sometimes.

Is a 1/2 in shooting sporter weight rifle a realistic standard or am I asking too much?

Thanks again,

Jamie
 
barrel

My experience with factory 22-250's, 5 of them are anything under 1" with a factory barrel is good. If after a good cleaning and working with a tight patch of JB the rifle is back to a decent shooter for 12-15 rounds I would suspect a rough bore and then I believe I would opt for a rebarrel with a better known barrel and a gunsmith who will check everything for concentricity and trueness. Then you can probably get a gun that might shoot close to 1/2" groups until the barrel goes again. I think a rebarrel would be about as cheap or cheaper than trading for another gun and probably more satisfactory. With a good barrel and good gunsmith a far better chance of a .5 shooter. Max
 
realistic standard....

well, now that you know your barrel's going south, order a new one, get a GOOD one. By the time its shipped to you, you'll probably be polishing off the turkey, so make an appointment to get it put on by a 'smith that knows what he's doing. You should be amazed w/what's possible, & you'll wonder why you didn't do it before. But, as has been said, there is a finite life, so be ready for another in a few years.
 
Larry Elliott said:
cleaning with JB since the purpose of breaking in is mainly to remove burrs left from chambering. Maybe I just ain't too smart though. :D
Click to expand...


Mr. Larry Elliott, would you believe, that you're still smarter than an average bear.

Con
 
jaybic said:
3 coyote hunting seasons so maybe 1500 rnds max.

My gunsmith says the throat looks fine...no erosion at all according to him.

Jamie
Click to expand...


Mr. Jamie, can you possibly believe, that it sounds too good.

Con
 
It's surprising when an actual round count is made, you could have well over 2000 rounds if you've done a lot of load testing and coyote hunting. I've had two .22-250's: an early Ruger 77V that would shoot 5/8-3/4 inch five shot groups but which had a chamber that was seriously oversized, and a Rem 700V that shot about the same, but had a smaller chamber. My brother helped total both barrels - I've never seen anyone who could fire a rifle with a single shot adapter as fast as he could at prairie dogs. :eek: That'll wad up a .22-250 barrel faster than anything.

I agree with Max and Brian about a new barrel, and that's the way I'd go if it can be squeezed into the budget, and would suggest considering a .22 BR with a no or minimal cleanup turn neck for Lapua 6 BR brass. With bullets up to 52-53 gr the .22 BR will match or nearly match the .22-250 in velocity using less powder and produce more accuracy while it's at it.

A barrel that's about the same diameter as the Rem 700 Varmint taper and 24" long isn't too heavy to carry around and easier to shoot IMHO. That's a Douglas 5 or 5A or equivalent size (0.7" to 0.75" at the muzzle for a 26" barrel or slightly larger for a 24") from other barrel makers. I've got a Douglas XX on a Savage varmint rifle and it's a pretty good barrel, maybe not quite up to the Hart's, Lilja's, or other BR quality barrels, but not far from them in quality and lower in price.
 
It sounds like you've got a rough barrel. Especially since the smith didn't start in first thing about your throat being gone. I have no experience with JB Bore Bright but I've used a lot of JB Paste. I find it helps factory barrels smooth up quite a bit. And too, cutom barrels that are supposed to be hand lapped seem to benifit from it's use. I don't have as much experience with custom barrels as I do factory barrels though.
I use a bore guide, of course and wet the bore with Kroil or Hoppes, then I run the one piece rod thru the barrel and then I screw on a used bore brush. Then I wrap a cotton patch around the brush and kinda knead it into the brush. Then I knead a good bit of JB Paste into the patch and brush and pull it thru the bore into the chamber and back out. I do it this way so the excess in scraped off at the muzzle and not in the chamber. I stroke the JB ptach back and forth and every so often, I take some of the JB that accumulates around the muzzle and resmear the patch. Every so often, I'll put on a new patch and add fresh JB Paste. The grit in the JB is much finer than anything they use to hand lap a custom barrel so it's gonna take a good bit of elbow grease but it's always paid off for me in slower fouling and quicker cleaning. When I get a new factory rifle, I use the technique abouve and give the bore 500 (yup 500) strokes.
 
My guess is if you are shooting groups as large as 2.5 inches at 100yds you have another problem besides the barrel. I have an old Springfield in 30-06 that will shoot groups half that size and the barrel on it is pure junk.

As for using JB paste. I use it on my benchrest 6PPC and the Borescope guy always says my barrels are clean and look good.. I use JB about every 3rd group, following up with solvent and then a couple alcohol patches and then 2 dry patches to finish.

Do you have any way to test your scope on another rifle, or maybe try a differnt bullet at slower velocity just to see of the gun likes it better?
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the ideas. I dont think its a scope related issue. My scope is a Leupold VX3LR in 4x14x40 and only about 4 months old. I had a VX2 6x18 on it that was brand new also and it made no difference.

A bit if good news tho. I did a normal clean with few patches of Butches boreshine and then went to Sweets 7.62. I let it sit for about 5 mins and then patched it out and then went to the JBs. I scrubbed it with that stuff on a patch wrapped around an old bore brush and did 50 strokes(100 if you count both ways) and then hit it with JBs bore brite.

Today at the range I shot my first group with the new load of 38 gr of H414, WLRs, Win cases and a 52 gr Sierra HPBTM and the first 4 shots went in to a group that measured (outside edge to outside edge -.224) and it was .341 and then of course, I tossed the 5th shot 3/8in away from the rest. I know thats not the exact way to measure but its the only way I know. This is plenty good by my standards for a pencil barrel calling rifle.

All 4 shots that gave me that were one directly above the other and touching by about 1/2 a bullet. I know this is just one group and I know ya have to count the 5th one in the group but I am happy something is going right. I shot a second group with the same load and it was not as good but still can hide 3 under a dime and all 5 under a quarter. I then went back to the load that was giving me fits and shot it after I did the whole cleaning routine again but that one went right back to 1.5in.

I thought I had it shooting 35.5 grains of Varget(right close to MAX) and 50 gr Vmaxes but maybe I have to give up on that load. I also tried H4895 with the same mediocre results. I have shot many coyotes with Vmax bullets and it kills them extra dead but If I have to find something else to gain acceptable accuracy, so be it I guess.

Thanks again to you fellas for your ideas and I know its to early to say I fixed the problem but its a glimmer of hope until a new barrel finds its way on to my rifle.

Jamie
 
Jamie......

it would sure help save your barrel to shoot 3 shot groups instead of 5 shot groups.

Your load of 38.0g of H414 with the 52's is a very light load, and don't be surprised if it is not stable....add more powder.

As your throat gets worn, the 52's will start to not group well, go to a bullet that has more bearing surface...I used to go straight to the 55g Sierra Semi point which are unreal accurate and very deadly on coyotes. I don't know if Sierra still makes this bullet or not.

If not, then try a flat base 55g Spt or a Sierra 63g Semi point which will stabalize in the 14 twist for sure.

Good luck!
 
Along with what Keith just said, if your groups are verticle your powder charge is too light. You know you're too hot when the group just blows up and shots go everywhere. I also agree with shooting 3 shot groups in place of 5 shot groups. It took me a coulle years to believe this is better but from experince I now know it is.
 
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At the BR School in SG several years ago, somebody gave a demonstration of barrel cleaning. We all had benchrest rifles and the instructor would ask you how clean your barrel was. Of course, I thought mine was clean until he showed it to me with a borescope. He then had me swab that barrel with JB Paste for ten minutes I bet. After cleaning with Butch's again the bore was pronounced clean. I went home and cleaned all my hunting rifle barrels with JB and some showed some tremendous improvement. Don't be afraid of using JB frequently. Tom
 
Jamie

I really don't think that you can expect consistent small 5 shot groups from a light weight factory sporter barrel.
Plus you need to shoot over wind flags to shoot constantly.
But believe me it doesn't take much to get a skinny barrel out of tune.
If you like the gun you might go ahead and consider getting a Shilen Select Match grade barrel (made in Texas) in a slightly heavier profile.
If your gun is shooting 2.5 inch groups and you are paying attention to the wind, using good bullets and neck sizing your brass then a new match grade barrel sure wouldn't hurt. It might surprise you .

Ted
 
22-250 barrel

jaybic: I can relate from personal experience: if you are approaching 2300 rounds thru the barrel, it is nearing the end of its' life. Using the "standard" load combo of 38 grs. of H380 and 53 to 55 gr. bullets, varmint contour, I burned out a Remington factory barrel at 2340 rds. I keep a log for each of my rifles, so know exact count. Replaced the Remington barrel with a Shilen stainless, same load combo, and it was also finished at 2420 rds.
 
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