Is there a short 6/284 version out there?

You've got to be kidding. You're bowing out of this because of a statement I make about myself? Wow.

Ok, so that must mean I'm still not making myself clear enough.
What I meant by being stubborn on info is that I don't believe things such as this just because someone says it's so. I don't know you, nor you I. Why would I blindly follow what you say with no reasoning or other basis to back it up. I don't think I'm stupid, and I can tell you aren't from what I've read so far so why does what I said bother you?
 
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LorenC said:
I'm curious what those .243 reasons are if you would tell them Al.
Click to expand...

I've spent some time trying to find the ultimate 6MM long range setup. Back when I bit the bullet and bought the big one I decided to try the 243AI. It was about 1993 or so and the 243AI was kind of challenging the competition at the time. The Ultimate 6MM was the 6X284, it got so popular that they started making brass for it. Pretty much all the shooters still believed that speed meant something and the 6X284 is speedy. BUT..... times change, each record broken set the bar higher and the 243AI was posting some amazing scores even against the huge 30's (the 30X378 was another big contender) so I went with the 243AI. I worked with 5 different reamers, almost a dozen barrels on 3 different proven platforms and just NEVER got what I wanted. But I learned a ton about case prep, maintenance and reloading. In the course of about a dozen years I ended up flogging the 243AI to exhaustion, trying other rounds alongside it and in the final tally being a huge fan of the 6BR. And I was hanging out here on this board as it gained ascendancy, even got a forum of it's own http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html and I reluctantly conceded that the 243AI was a lost cause.

ANYways..... over time it seemed that cases shrank and accuracy requirements went up. Trial and error does show honest results over time and the results are pretty much irrefutable, the Lapua 6BR brass allowed for loading to velocities that just reset the clock. The case is remarkable, and easily modified. 6BR based rounds like the "Dasher" and BRX were soon walking all over the larger Super Sixes.

But WHY???

This was the question I asked.....WHY?

What makes THIS case stand out from the herd?

And I found an answer. After extensive testing I've an answer, for me.

And the answer is, small primer/small flashhole allowing for higher safe pressure levels.

The 6BR performs because it's a better case, a better pressure vessel.

But Charles and yourself are right, it's small.

But wait! There's hope and change!

Good Things in the offing.

Gotta' Love Lapua

Lapua again answered our prayers. First they came out with the 6.5X47 case and now the new Palma case. The 6.5X47L IMMEDIATELY became a success in 6MM, challenging the 6BR, and the new Palma case brings the 243 into the 21st century....

Soooo, circuitously I can now recommend the 243 wholeheartedly as a viable 1000yd chambering. Done correctly it'll ROCK your world, easily pushing 105's over 3200fps. NOT the 243AI, I don't recommend it for anything, but the 243.

In the interest of saving you money I'm offering it as a good alternative since you already have reloading gear.

I'm trying to steer you away from The Equipment Graveyard. Mine is HUGE and full of busted dreams.

And stacks of used up dollars.



So, there's some of my reasons. There are many more but that's a quick and dirty view

al
 
Wouldn't have anything in that graveyard that would be a step up in the direction I'm pointed, do you?

This is pretty interesting reading Al. In the middle of it I couldn't help but think "why not the AI on the Lapua case then?"
 
You are very right about my long range experience, Charles. I have none to be exact. That's the reason for all of this. I've wanted to know about long shooting for 25 years, never gotten my feet wet. I have read bits here and there, enough to know there are physics and equipment choices that enter into it that aren't used elsewhere in the shooting world. I'm also pretty sure there a lots of people in br that really are doing well only because they use what is proven, and know how to make it perform extremely well. I guess if I'm considered an idiot because I don't just jump in line at the shooting equipment suppliers with the xerox copied list, so be it. I can't do that, even if it means second or worse. I have no confidence in not knowing for myself the reasons for what I'm doing.
 
LorenC said:
Wouldn't have anything in that graveyard that would be a step up in the direction I'm pointed, do you?

This is pretty interesting reading Al. In the middle of it I couldn't help but think "why not the AI on the Lapua case then?"
Click to expand...



No, it's graveyard because it's failed stuff.

The problem I've found with the AI is the 40 degree shoulder. I've not found a way to maintain the 243AI cases correctly. If you pursue this stuff until you can win something, if you've the patience to jump all the hurdles, climb the steep slope and prevail, you'll find that properly fitted sizing (maintenance) equipment is required. You MUST be able to maintain consistency shot after shot after shot, reload after reload after reload and the 243AI is a recalcitrant barstid to maintain. Also a B**** to make brass for because the cases pull back, shorten when you fireform them. Making good AI brass requires two barrels, two chambering reamers and then when you're all done you can't maintain it.......But this is all stuff you'll only learn after shooting lots of rounds.

In the end I'm a pragmatist, I lissen, I learn and I do.... and I try to honestly assess the results. I don't give you advice about something "because I've got one and I like it." My opinions are paid for. I spent ten yrs and thousands of dollars following "the match-winning experts" and copying match reports and such. I've used many reamers with people's names attached to them. But I'm primarily an experimenter, I test stuff. It wasn't until I started shooting in registered matches and getting to know match shooters that I realized just how much GUESSING was going on. And how much "well I've got the reamer" and such was going on. Lots of wins were SHOOTERS, lots were also EQUIPMENT, and lots were LUCK. The trick is to weed through and find usable, repeatable information. But I test, I keep notes, and I've been able to go out and spend the money. And I've found that consistent winners do follow certain trends. And as a pragmatist, a results driven guy, I ordered 500rds of the 6.6X47L brass sight unseen almost a YEAR before any got to America. Same with the 308 Palma.

And they've worked out exactly as predicted.

In fact I stay in touch with a half-dozen people from East to West, shooters I've never met face to face in some cases, who're also testing/competing with the new cases. Implemented correctly they work. They work because they HAVE to, they're made correctly, they do things that regular cases cannot do.

If you were to have asked this sort of question on the short-range forum you'd have gotten only one answer, "6PPC." And that IS the correct answer but explaining WHY is hard. Given enough experience there are several other exotic chamberings that absolutely will compete with the 6PPC but nothing that's a better choice. Certainly nothing easier.

You've got some choices to make.

Good luck with them

al
 
On the Savage preference you guys are stating? You both realize this is an old model, long action, right? No accutriger, repeater, trigger will HAVE to be replaced, .223 bolt head, it's been pushed hard too. Lots of negatives there. It has shot several groups in the .1's tho.

That aside for a moment, I'm starting with the Ruger heavy to get back into shooting. It won't be where I end up, but I really need to get back in the saddle for a while before I can expect anything good on a target. I need to start back at the basics and learn PROPER case prep and loading techniques, and this will give me the time to build another as I'm enjoying shooting again. I'm putting the Ruger .338 win up for sale in the mean time.
 
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