Interesting Day With A Scope At The Range

[jackie schmidt]

A while back, a fellow shooter sent me a 36x Leupold scope that I had frozen quite a few years ago to check it out. I could not find anything wrong with it, so I decided to take it to the range.

I wanted to figure out a way to remove any doubt as to it being rock solid, , so I simply mounted it in a set of Kelbly Double rings, with no means of adjustment, attop my 30BR

The first shot hit about a foot high. I placed some paper shims under the scope in the front ring, and finally got the POI within about 6 inches of the mothball.

I then loaded up my pet load, and shot a group in a real gental left to right. It was really good. I then shot a group in a real gental reversal, (right to left), and it was equally as good. Both groups were Sub .150.

I decided that this scope was rock solid. So, I put my 50x March back on and shot it the rest of the day.

Guess what. The two best groups of the day were those two shot with the frozen scope in solid mounts. Here are those two groups. For the group on the #2 target, I was aiming at the bull on the #1 target, and the one on the #3 target, I was aiming at the bull on the #2 target.

I did shoot some good groups with the March, but not THAT good.

Gets you to thinking, huh.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17191&stc=1&d=1451933737

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You should get a new valdada from bart. Thats solved a lot of folks issues recently. Then id like to hear a report on that comparison!

 

[Jim Pag]

You should get a new valdada from bart. Thats solved a lot of folks issues recently. Then id like to hear a report on that comparison!

Dusty. I take it u like your Valdada. I've had 2 so far with 2 different reticles. Never used either one in a match yet, just at home testing loads. I really like the clarity and it tracks really well. Nice groups Jackie!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The valdadas have been a gamechanger jim. Not only are they way clearer they cost a ton less and actually hold poi. Yes i love em. I sold 26 scopes last year and put valdadas on everything that i have that could shoot the difference.

 

[Chism G]

Frozen Scopes

It makes sense to me that any scope manufacturing company could build a real cheap,non-adjustable,(Frozen) competition scope for use on adjustable rings. It would remove the skepticism about POA change.




Glenn

 

[glp]

Glenn

It makes sense to me that any scope manufacturing company could build a real cheap,non-adjustable,(Frozen) competition scope for use on adjustable rings. It would remove the skepticism about POA change.




Glenn

yes but it goes against the grain, so to speak, of their bread and butter....internally adjustable scopes. Not likely imo, but I'm with you. I have two Leups frozen by Bob Brackney in his rings and like them very much. Got them after my sixth Weaver 36 failed to hold POI and after two Leup comps did the same thing.

I have not tried a March($ and the 5 year warranty) or a Valdada. What is the warranty on a Valdada, how do they hold up over time and who fixes them if need be? Tks

 

[Mike Bryant]

Another fly in the ointment. I received an e-mail yesterday that Nightforce is bringing out a new scope for short range benchrest. A fixed power 42X that weighs 20 ounces. On their web site, it's listed under the competition model. I bought a NF competition scope last year that I've been very impressed with it optically. Haven't decided yet on holding point of impact. IMO holding point of impact is the top priority of a benchrest scope. Figure lots of good barrels have been removed because of scopes not holding point of impact.

 

[Jim Pag]

yes but it goes against the grain, so to speak, of their bread and butter....internally adjustable scopes. Not likely imo, but I'm with you. I have two Leups frozen by Bob Brackney in his rings and like them very much. Got them after my sixth Weaver 36 failed to hold POI and after two Leup comps did the same thing.

I have not tried a March($ and the 5 year warranty) or a Valdada. What is the warranty on a Valdada, how do they hold up over time and who fixes them if need be? Tks

Greg. They have a limited lifetime warranty. From all that I've read on them before I bought both of mine they hold up quite well. If they need to be fixed, IOR has a place in Burleson, TX that you send it back to for repairs. They weight 25.5 oz which is heavier than my fixed power March's which weigh in at 20.9oz. They buy glass form Schott Gunwerks in Germany and they cut, grind and coat their lenses right at the factory in Romania. There really clear and built like a tank. I heard they hold their POI just as well as a March.

 

[glp]

Jim,

all the makers seem to focus on clarity, definition, brightness, etc. These should be givens in a high price scope. What they don't talk about much or if they do, they don't explain how they are internally designed to hold POI. Like Mike said, that is the single most important aspect of a BR scope imo. Honest and true tracking is important also. As you know many adjust the scope during a match...a few clicks up or down, left or right. I sure hope they have determined that the number of clicks actually move the POI the desired amount and it holds there after clicking shot after shot.

I can tell you that even with a frozen scope, when I adjust windage or elevation, there is a settling factor that I have to see on the sighter...which is one of the reasons I hate to adjust during a match vs. holding off as conditions or the scope requires. You would think a frozen scope, once set, will absolutely hold poi. My experience is the scope does but the mount may not as it heats up and expands the AL mounts and possibly the live rubber ring in the front mount, which is one of the reasons I never leave my rifle/scope exposed to a blazing sun...when we have such!

 

[Jim Pag]

all the makers seem to focus on clarity, definition, brightness, etc. These should be givens in a high price scope. What they don't talk about much or if they do, they don't explain how they are internally designed to hold POI. Like Mike said, that is the single most important aspect of a BR scope imo. Honest and true tracking is important also. As you know many adjust the scope during a match...a few clicks up or down, left or right. I sure hope they have determined that the number of clicks actually move the POI the desired amount and it holds there after clicking shot after shot.

I can tell you that even with a frozen scope, when I adjust windage or elevation, there is a settling factor that I have to see on the sighter...which is one of the reasons I hate to adjust during a match vs. holding off as conditions or the scope requires. You would think a frozen scope, once set, will absolutely hold poi. My experience is the scope does but the mount may not as it heats up and expands the AL mounts and possibly the live rubber ring in the front mount, which is one of the reasons I never leave my rifle/scope exposed to a blazing sun...when we have such!

Well Greg, thank God I never had an issue with any of my scopes. I did have an issue with a set of Farley Rings that mount directly to the receiver. The first season that I shot in 2013, the first match that I ever won was a 100 yarder in VT. For some reason when I took in down in my basement to clean it, I grabbed the scope in my right hand and the stock and bbl in the other and for some unknown reason I decided to see if the scope moved and there was slop in it. The screws on the combo base/rings loosened up. I usually put blue Loctite on every screw, but all 4 took a tiny bit of turning to tighted them up. I LUCKED OUT BIG TIME AT THAT MATCH. Maybe that's why I only shot 17X's which was still good enough that day. My scenario sounds like a typical day for Z-DOG though, or as u call him POOCH-DOG. LMAO!

 

[glp]

Jim

if you have enough dogs in the house you are bound to step in it...once in a while! I know!! One reason I hate lug soles. -1F this morning. Any colder up your way?

 

[Jim Pag]

if you have enough dogs in the house you are bound to step in it...once in a while! I know!! One reason I hate lug soles. -1F this morning. Any colder up your way?

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! It was minus 5 when I woke up and it's still -5. I'll see you at the winter meeting next week. I'll even buy u a cocktail or two. We could use some anti-freeze in our bodies right about now.

 

[jackie schmidt]

I started this thread with the thought that it took me by surprise how well the Rifle shot with that frozen scope mounted solid in a set of rings, and, in my opinion, did not perform as well with my 50x March. We had outstanding conditions all day long.

Keep in mind, this 50x March was bought in just their second year of their production. It has a LOT of rounds of 30BR under it's belt. I'm not saying it shot bad, I'm just saying I never could, despite my efforts, duplicate those two groups. It went from shooting small "ones" to shooting "big ones" and "small twos".

I have several of my own frozen scopes, two still in Jewell/Foster adjustable mounts. I got away from those when March came out, and I have always had a lot of faith in the March 50x holding POI.

I might do a little experimenting in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Jim Pag]

I started this thread with the thought that it took me by surprise how well the Rifle shot with that frozen scope mounted solid in a set of rings, and, in my opinion, did not perform as well with my 50x March. We had outstanding conditions all day long.

Keep in mind, this 50x March was bought in just their second year of their production. It has a LOT of rounds of 30BR under it's belt. I'm not saying it shot bad, I'm just saying I never could, despite my efforts, duplicate those two groups. It went from shooting small "ones" to shooting "big ones" and "small twos".

I have several of my own frozen scopes, two still in Jewell/Foster adjustable mounts. I got away from those when March came out, and I have always had a lot of faith in the March 50x holding POI.

I might do a little experimenting in the next couple of weeks.

Lucky You. I'll probable have to wait at least 3 month's before I can do something other than freeze my nuts off.

 

[glp]

keep us posted

I started this thread with the thought that it took me by surprise how well the Rifle shot with that frozen scope mounted solid in a set of rings, and, in my opinion, did not perform as well with my 50x March. We had outstanding conditions all day long.

Keep in mind, this 50x March was bought in just their second year of their production. It has a LOT of rounds of 30BR under it's belt. I'm not saying it shot bad, I'm just saying I never could, despite my efforts, duplicate those two groups. It went from shooting small "ones" to shooting "big ones" and "small twos".

I have several of my own frozen scopes, two still in Jewell/Foster adjustable mounts. I got away from those when March came out, and I have always had a lot of faith in the March 50x holding POI.

I might do a little experimenting in the next couple of weeks.

all in all, I do like the Brackney frozen scope/ring combination and have a lot of faith in it, but not enough to assume its flawless. I had a set of Jewell/Foster rings 10 years ago and found that they needed some time to settle in when adjusted for windage or elevation or both. Once settled in they held POI pretty well. Ok for group shooting but not so good for score imo where many including me try for an absolute zero on the warmup target. I find the Brackney setup may wander a bit when adjusted but not as much as my old Foster rings. Tks

 

[jackie schmidt]

all in all, I do like the Brackney frozen scope/ring combination and have a lot of faith in it, but not enough to assume its flawless. I had a set of Jewell/Foster rings 10 years ago and found that they needed some time to settle in when adjusted for windage or elevation or both. Once settled in they held POI pretty well. Ok for group shooting but not so good for score imo where many including me try for an absolute zero on the warmup target. I find the Brackney setup may wander a bit when adjusted but not as much as my old Foster rings. Tks

I actually did some of my best shooting back when I used the Jewell/Foster mounts and my own frozen 36 Leupold. When I got the March, it shot as good, then we got really busy at my shop for the past 4 years, and I just sort of stuck with what I had at the time.

I have shot some great aggs, and great scores, with my 30BR/March 50x combo.. But it might be getting old, and tired, like me.

 

[glp]

Scopes are like barrels or racehorses...

I actually did some of my best shooting back when I used the Jewell/Foster mounts and my own frozen 36 Leupold. When I got the March, it shot as good, then we got really busy at my shop for the past 4 years, and I just sort of stuck with what I had at the time.

I have shot some great aggs, and great scores, with my 30BR/March 50x combo.. But it might be getting old, and tired, like me.

they wear out. The erector tube sliding back and forth with little springs to return it to position just can't be a long term item. I have had issues over the years with various BR components....barrels, triggers once in a while, but the most vexing issues have been with scopes.

If you happen to get a good March for 3K and it gives you 5 years of really dependable service, that's only 600 a year...not much more than 1000 bullets and the powder to drive them. Put that way, perhaps I should go shopping for a March...after I do my taxes.

 

[scott mims]

But what are the chances of a frozen scope going bad? Would it be the frozen scope or the mounting system it came with? When they freeze a scope do they take out ALL the parts that would go bad on a scope if something ever did?

 

[jackie schmidt]

When I froze a 36 Leupold or Weaver, I literally glued the erector tube in solid. The small lenses in the erector tube are both glued in or held in with small spanner nuts. The objective lens can come loose as it is screwed into the housing and locked with spanner nuts. But you can alway tighten them. Same with the eyepiece lenses.

The reticle is held fir my against the erector tube, I suppose over the years that nut could work loose.

I used to check mine periodically.

 

[scott mims]

Thanks Jackie. I have a leupold 40x frozen and it seems to be fine until I shoot a bad group and want to blame something other than myself ?