IBS 1000 YD HG muzzle brakes

Where are the real men?? Just a few years ago several 100/200 shooters were shooting a full length 308 in LV.

I think I'll go to a 14 cal!!
 
A way back you made mention of the 100-200 yard guys needing or wanting a muzzle brake on their .30 caliber LV rifle. You're a long way from the truth there. In fact there are a large number of guys shooting 10 pound guns in the Hunter and Varmint Hunter class and with cartridges larger than .30BR with little or no ill effect.
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No, I didn't say that. What I actually said was "For a good understanding of the muzzle brake issue, suggest to the point-blank crowd that muzzle brakes be allowed in *their* sport."

Remember when brakes were sort of, kind of allowed in Hunter class, as long as they were cut into the barrel? Maybe that was NBRSA only, I can't remember. But I remember that loophole getting plugged. Remember when IBS first banned the tuners, and the debate to (re)instate them often concerned worries that would allow muzzle brakes to creep back in?

The reference to the .30-BR LV was simply in response to a number of people holding it was "too hard to handle the recoil." I never said that -- Heck, I've been known to shoot a 10-pound Hunter in .30x44.

In all fairness these are no where close to what the 1000 yard people are shooting
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Actually, they probably are. To be certain, I'd have to go run the numbers. A 10-pound (Hunter) in full .308 comes back right smart. Even my .30X44 is not a maiden's kiss.

Add 7 pounds and a recoil pad, as you do with a 1K rifle, and many chamberings are a bit gentler that. In a 1,000 yard rifle, when I shoot a 6mm in a 17-pound light gun, I don't use a brake. Sometimes not even a recoil pad. I shoot a 6.5 without a brake or without a pad, but want it to have one or the other.

Actually, as far as "can" goes, I've shot a 17-pound .338/404 without a brake. But since they are allowed, when I shoot a big .30 in LG, I use both a brake and a pad, and am glad for them.

For the past 15 years, none of us in IBS has used a brake in HG. Now, some people, particularly the guys who say they can't afford a HG and want to shoot LG in the HG class, are worried about recoil. Sounds like a good argument to build a 6mm or a 6.5, doesn't it?

Remember Wilbur's story about the costs of shooting benchrest? I wish he'd resurrect it.

Phil Bower had it exactly right. The problem isn't when you're shooting. It is the all-day noise.
 
fouron....
you should try listening to yourself.....


mike in co
 
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being the beginer in the long range arena...i have seen the dq's as an issue for the competitors.

why not:
if my miss hits a target(someone elses..not a frame not in use) anywhere, its a dq, but if i just miss...i miss the 10 points that goes with it, but i stay in the hunt........
i cannot win group(probably) with a 10 in penalty.....
but you have more finishers...
the shooters come to compete. and the dq's take the fun out of the game.....

just 2cents worth form a new guy that has been watching the game...

mike in co
 
mike in co said:
being the beginer in the long range arena...i have seen the dq's as an issue for the competitors.

why not:
if my miss hits a target(someone elses..not a frame not in use) anywhere, its a dq, but if i just miss...i miss the 10 points that goes with it, but i stay in the hunt........
i cannot win group(probably) with a 10 in penalty.....
but you have more finishers...
the shooters come to compete. and the dq's take the fun out of the game.....

just 2cents worth form a new guy that has been watching the game...

mike in co
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The risk of being DQ'd is a part of any sport, a risk that every competitor faces. So the debate really is "just how hard should it be?" I've argued that a miss should be scored as a zero score and a 20-inch penalty for group myself.

But not for the silly reason that it takes all the fun out of the game. If something becomes "no fun" for such a small reason, you'll quit anyway. Good riddance to such finicky sorts.

I've DQ'd. I've even been in shootoffs where everybody DQ'd, so there was no winner. Now that *was* fun. Maybe you had to be there. A bit of real life brought to a match.

* * *

Let me make a prediction. You're new to 1K BR. One of these days, you'll score a really good barrel. Most of us do. If that happens with a pretty good lot of bullets, you'll start winning consistently.

At that point, you'll think you're really good, you have it all figured out. You know how to shoot. Your advice will flow unchecked to the less fortunate. You might even get two good barrels in a row. It's happened.

But just as that good barrel was predictable on the bell-shaped curve, so too is the eventual average barrel that will come along. Wins won't come very often.

Now what, do you quit?

* * *

I'll allow that FOURON doesn't write all that well. Apparently writing skills are not a part of Special Forces training. But his thinking is pretty good. He's been shooting a long time, and his opinion is colored by experience as well as preference. More than you can say.
 
Well Charles, like I've said in the past, I've seen them come and I've seen them go and I've seen a lot of the good ones die. One thing I've learned, you can't be a crybaby about losing. You're right about needing to have a good barrel and bullets. I've been a member of the IBS for 35 years. I recall hearing that if Williamsport went to 17 lbs. then IBS would go to shooting 10 shots in the light gun class. Williamsport went to 17 lbs. a number of years ago and there has been no change in the IBS rules as far as shooting 10 shots for light gun. Like hearing about the muzzle breaks, Pa has that also. Why can't all the 1000 yard shooting clubs have the same rules? And as far as DQ's go we don't hand out prizes for nine shots on paper. If you got blown off. Try reading the wind I heard its possible.

Joe Salt
 
It sounds like people are scared they might loose to someone with only 4 shots on paper. I guess it's just how you look at things. To me, 4-10's and 1-0 sounds like better shooting then 5 shots out in the 6 ring. More so if it's across sever relays, 19-10's and 1-0 vs a bunch of 6's and 7's. Who shot better?
 
The Final Point

It all come down to this, The current rule book say's 5 shots on paper. Anything less is a DQ. Until the rule is changed, It stand's. The same as the Muzzle Brake issue. Let's move on and discuss why the 600yd game gets sucked into almost everything the 1,000yd game does in regards to rules. Why can't the IBS change this and list each disicipline seperately so when a vote comes up for an agenda (Muzzle Brakes 1,000yd) it does'nt effect 600yds unless both are named on it. As long as it is worded Long Range, it effects both, want it or not.
 
PA Mtn Boy - There are separate sections for 600 and 1000 competition. The proposed change was to the rifles which are the same for both disciplines. If a shooter wants to change it to something else then they need to propose a change under our process. As I have stated before, "the IBS" does NOT start the rule making process, the shooters do. The only exception is in regard to safety.

Jeff Stover
 
Finally it has happened. But what I never understood is why so many people use the noise as an excuss to keep brakes off of heavy guns. We could fix that issue and argument by banning ALL breaks off light guns then if their so noisy. That would NEVER happen so what's the big deal. I know ALL of our older gents will love this good news.(less recoil) Now I don't have to build a heavy gun again to compete comfortably with my big boomer.
We, TVP/OHIO1000 will allow suppressors in our Tactical/factory class this year. 20 shooters firing all at the same time under the steel roof...no hearing protection needed what so ever. Very pleasant indeed.
Suppressor class and ONE MILE IBS BR will be next. It's time for the sport to grow again.
 
One thing I've noticed: A few guys start trashing each other, it escalates, then either posts or a whole thread has to be deleted. Then the same people blame the moderator who deleted it.

There are rules on Benchrest Central too.

So. There is no contribution to shooting in this latest turn. There is not much in the entire thread. Stay at it and I delete the thread, and ask Wilbur to take a look.
 
Hey,

Maybe you deleted my first post in this thread by accident? It was not trashing, bashing or anything of the sort so I'm curious as to why it was deleted. There was absolutely no ascerbic language in that post.
Just my thoughts on how this rule change could be a good thing for 1000 yard IBS. The hate posts followed, yes those should have been deleted because they where going a different route as always. I would have PM'd you but you don't except them. I would like my original post put back up please..I know you don't agree with my or others opinions but your a moderator NOT a dictator. If you want to start moderating then you should have done that a year ago or even the year before and so on when I asked you to...nicely.
 
Thank you, no labeling here or compliments. Just a friendly reminder. If you read my post a little more carefully it says YOUR a MODERATOR...NOT A DICTATOR.
You have your opinion on the rule change and I have mine. No need for any of us to get upset with a rule change. MOST have had it their way for way TOO long and now it's our turn.
What's wrong with a one year experiment/test run? We need ALL the shooters we can get because when all the stubborn old guys die out who don't want to see change.. who will be left?
 
It is really saying something when I of all people think it's time to step back for a minute.

I for one agree 100% with the above "Moderation". I am surprised at the reaction. This is so misguided, comments so misdirected, I don't know what else to say...
 
Is that really necessary? Since your so smart go back and read my post. You dilberately
deleted my post for no reason. You posted "when people start bashing"....I never bashed anyone. I was simply voiceing my opinion of the rules change and my post got deleted by someone who did'nt agree with it. As for spell check, my man hood is not affected by a misspelled word I may type..the only people who care to bring to anyones attention are the ones who have an issue with their manhood, and that you can see by looking at them.

And if you had a PM box we could have handled it there.
 
Everyone seems to have forgotten or doesn't know that IBS LONG RANGE Competition is a group discipline with score as secondary. Group takes precedence over score, if you don't have a complete group you don't have a score. In the beginning of 600yd comps we did add a point for each "X" giving the shooter credit for centering his group but that was later voted out. There was also discussion and it is in the rules that backers should be used to determine if all shots were on paper in the case of doubles. I don't know of any ranges using backers yet. Sometimes the game is tough, if you don't have a group, you don't have a complete target. Rob Ritchie
 
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