IBS 1000 yard DQ rule change

C

Chisolm

Member
Has anyone yet typed up a petition to propose a rule change to eliminate the DQ for a shot off paper rule. (Section VII.F.1.d)
All 10 shots for measured group and score must be on the target to qualify for awards. When a competitor has the smallest group and the highest score, he/she must take the smallest group for the shoot-off competition.

If not, is anyone working on one?

It seemed to me that there were serveral people in favor of the change. The petition with 25 signatures must be turned in to the LR committee by July 1 in order for it to get voted on at this winters Board Meeting.
I am just curious if there is still interest in the rule change, or did you all forget about it.
If there is a petition already out there I would like to sign it.

Also this is the only place I could find reference to a DQ for shots off paper other than a crossfire, did I miss anything?

James
 
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DQ Rule

So does this meen if I were the only one in my relay with all ten shots on, and have a flyer I can through it out and have a record group. If you can't keep them all on paper you'll just have to try harder next match. What next would you like to get a trophy for just competing. I've already been DQ'ed second match, Poor me!:cool::p

Joe Salt
 
I shoot only NBRSA so I don't have a horse in this race, but I've always been curious about your DQ rule. What happens when everyone has a shot off paper? You'd be hard pressed to name a winner at a range like Reno. Maybe the wind doesn't blow at IBS matches?

Ray
 
What problem does this rule change proposal address? In every competition there does exist a penalty for missing the target, or not shooting where you are supposed to, say outside of the sighter box on an VFS target or outside the box on a group target.
 
I see a penalty and a DQ as two different things. You can come back from a penalty and still win, but a DQ means you're done. Or am I missing something?

Ray
 
Ray,
No you aren't missing anything.
One thing though, maybe someone made a mistake with the wording when putting it in the rule book but it is not being enforced as written. The way the rule reads, one shot off paper and your DQed for the entire match but the way it has been enforced is that you only get DQed for that class.

James
 
In PA, we had a shoot off where no one got all 10 shots on paper and there was no winner, the money all went back to the club. Sorry no payout. We have a six and ten match agg. So just try and keep them on paper for at least six matches. This is a tough sport, that is what I like about it, you never know who is going to win. So I say, just keep the rule the way it's written, if you're off paper you're DQed for the day.

Joe Salt
 
James
Are you still interested in getting up a petition to allow Light Guns with a muzzle brake to shoot in Heavy Gun?
Let me know, I would be glad to help out on that one.
Jerry
 
Jerry,
I am still interested but I am trying to make sure that there isn't one already floating around out there like with the DQ change. It would be best to only have one petition so there isn't an issue with wording of the proposed rule change.
If I don't find that there is one out there already I'd be happy to work with you on preparing a petition.
I believe between The Colorado State Championship and Iowa State Championship we can get the requisite signatures to get it to the LR committee.
I know that the Brake issue has been voted on a couple times and been voted down though. I believe IBS is the only organization that doesn't allow brakes in HG though. I think 2 years ago there were 2 proposals involving the HG Brake rule.

James
 
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what is it you all are trying to change? alow the target for score even if there is only 9 on? but d.q. for group? or?
tom

joe, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
 
Tom,
The Idea is to add 10" to group for each shot off target. Score would be what ever the actual target score is.
The reason is that many times the shooter is penalized for drawing the wrong relay. The shoot off is just a tool to even up the differences between the relay conditions, this would just go further to that end. It would also make the Nationals more fair I believe, I know there are many top shooters who agree with me.

James
 
Tom No I didn't get up on the wrong side of anything, its just people want trophy's for anything they compete in these days, there telling there kids if you compete in anything and you suck you should get a trophy. I for one don't want this to turn into that.

Joe Salt
 
Oh come on Joe think of how a DQ effects a persons feelings. Think of thier self-esteem man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You come in last or worse, DQed and we'll still give you props:D:D.
 
i do too, but i like to rile him up. i was right there on the edge myself allready, allmost blew it. a 46 when you shoot 10 is embarassing, but i'm over it now.
tom
 
dosn,t sound too fair to me.I missed a target on a record string once.I waited for the wind to die down and then shot.i had 9 in 7" right at the edge of the paper and 1 a 1/2" off.if you add 10" to that i probly would have won for group. that dosn't fly with me.missing a target that day tawt me a good lesson in shooting in the wind.I didn't take off the windage i put on when the wind was blowing,then i shot in the calm and went to the other side and off.just learn for your misstakes and keep them all on.i dosn't hurt to shot faster and pratice in the wind ether.
 
well there is that. BUT what happens when it is shooter error, and it does happen, miss count or trigger malfuntion, and human malfunction. what if there is 9 in the x ring, and the nearest "edge" of paper is 20" away, then what. or......what if one person on the relay did NOT d.q., that would mean it WAS doable right? giving someone a score MIGHT be ok, because the shooter did actually put bullets into the scoring rings. but to give someone some make believe # for group, i don't see how that would be fair to anyone, ever.
tom
 
My thoughts........miss the target and DQ for group. Just count the remaning shots for score. You can not argue with the score of the shots on target.......it is just math and is what it is...the penalty is the missed shot.

Or.................. lets replace the currant target with one that is sixteen feet square....and to make EVERYONE happy.......it is all a big X!!!! None of those pesky 9's or 8's...all x's....... everyone who gets all the shots on paper shoots a perfect score!!!! And we shouldn't measure the groups.....it is unfair to those who don't have the very best equipment to have to group with the "rich" guys.

OK....Maybe not...LOL
 
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I know where Joe is going with this.

I have a Grandson who plays soccer in CA. Now remember I said Ca !!!! Whenever a goal is scored, the team that scores a goal gathers around the goalie and gives him a cheer and then the opposing team is allowed to score a goal so NOONE feels bad. All games end in a tie.

That's like give a shot on paper when none occurred.:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
This is my thirteenth year in this sport. And every year, someone wants to change something. Let's leave the rules alone for a few years, so that everyone can get on the same page for once. I spent five out of the first ten years on the rules committee and there was always some proposed change that someone wanted pushed through for various different reasons.

My thoughts on the two matters discussed so far;

This is a real world game. If vou don't get all shots on paper, you either experienced some bad luck, didn't read the conditions right, didn't fire the required amount of rounds, or it just wasn't meant to be. Get over it.
Most of us are adults. When I played in little league baseball years ago, if I missed the ball pitched to me while at bat, I didn't get to go to first base anyway. When I played football in high school and I got the crap knocked out of me, I didn't whine about it and ask for a do over. ( actually, I acknowledged a good hit to the guy, but on the next play I was looking to give some payback) In business today, if I lose a job to a competitor, I figure out why so I don't next time.

Muzzle brakes in HG?
Why? If you can spend the money to compete in this game just for LG, then you should eventually be able to build a HG or buy a decent used one.

On a personal note, in '99, I used a LG in 300 Win Mag all season in HG until just before the Nationals when mine was built. I did better in HG than in LG. Even came in 2nd in HG in the NC state match that year.

We should making our game more of a challenge,(spelling?) than making it easier.

How about we take and retire all LG records and move up to ten shots per target. I would vote for that in a heart beat. Let me see some support for that.

That is my nickels worth.

Danny
 
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