Hydroform Experiment

E

ewspears

New member
I had been discussing Hydroforming 220 Russian into 6PPC with Ralph Stewart and Shelley Davidson for about a month when the projects priority suddenly increased. - The Sheriff asked me not to Fireform on or near my property anymore since some people thought there was drug deal shootout going on!

I hadn't made up a Special Die or Seater with a .271" neck for the virgin 220 Russian but I had some Ron Hoehn fully prepped 6 PPC brass. This brass is neck formed and neckturned to .0085" Wall but still has a 220 Russian Body.
I put fired primers into them. I used one of my old Seater Dies that had been Reamed with my .262" Neck Chamber Reamer. I replaced the Seater Stem with a same diameter (.2433") longer stem that was not drilled and countersunk for contacting the bullet ogive. The last .125" was tapered down to .222" so that it could be used with virgin 220 Russian Brass.

First test with Water:
I put a 1/2" Steel Back Riviting Plate on a heavy oak benchtop and placed a 3" Dia by 2" high can of water on Plate. Placed a piece of Hoehn Brass into water can neck up and slipped the seater die over it. (The top of the seater die was above the water and can but I was sure there was no air in case) I smacked the top of the Seater Top smartly with a 2# Brass Hammer! It went all the way into the Seater Die about 7/16". removed from water and had to pry Seater Top up from Seater Body. (Was pulling .2433" Stem out of Case Neck) RESULTS: Must have been getting too much leakage since I couldn't any forming at all! (Shoulder still measured .403")

Second Test with 30 weight Motor Oil:
For this test I discarded the can of water and just filled the case with oil, put the modified stem seater over it, and smacked it with same hammer! RESULTS: This time the Seater Top didn't go all the way down to the Seater Body. I was getting the desired hydrolock and definitely got forming on the case! In fact I got too much forming; The shoulder was .434" even though the Shoulder ID in the Die was .433" What was happening was: The internal pressure working against the PPC case taper was causing the Seater Die Body to ride up about .100" Tried a second case while manually holding the Seater Die Body Down by hand. NO JOY! It still popped up and oversized the case.

Third Test with 30 weght motor oil:
This test was the same as second test except I used a spacer washer and an Automotive Valve Spring Compressor to clamp Seater Die Body to Plate. Photo hopefully attached. RESULTS: Now I got cases with .432" shoulders like I get when fireforming with powder and candlewax. It did appear that the body forming started at the bottom of the annealing discoloration on the cases. All in all, about equal to wax & powder but inferior to Bullet & Powder. The Valve Spring Compressor may not be neccesary if you kept any oil off the outside of the cases and didn't have a polished searer die.

Kind of a hassle, Think I'm going to just get a roll of insulation and just use wax & powder inside my hanger!
 

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I use

a roll of insulation stuck into a 55 gallon drum with the ends removed. Just happened to have it laying around. if you pop it off with the barrel half way down you dont even need earplugs. sounds like an air rifle. i recommend the insulation without paper though. the paper will catch on fire.
 
ewspears...

Do you live on 5 acres or more?...I believe the laws in the State of Texas allow you to discharge a firearm in a safe manner if you own 5 or more acres..:)
Our County enacted a law that requires us to have more than ten acres before we can discharge a firearm...:mad:
But the County Law was the results of "idiots" living in a small community with no law enforcement..(primarily 1 acre or less residental lots) shooting at white wing dove with their shotguns as they flew over their community..:eek:
This lack of common sense led to the County to enact the "ten Acre" law, which by the way is twice the State recommendation..
And it is always those non-shooting neighbors that think you are shooting directly at them when they hear a gunshot of anykind..:rolleyes:
I hope you can find some type of method to silence the report as you fireform your brass...
I can't fathom why people that don't use or understand firearms move to the country..:confused:
When one lives in a remote area it is with the understanding that we will have to deal with "pests and predators" and a firearm is as necessary as a chainsaw and tractor witha shredder..:(
 
Many years ago I figured that I could just stuff the muzzle of a rifle that needed cases formed for it into the bung of a 5 gal metal solvent can and using it to contain the blast and noise of ~10 gr of pistol powder and wax. Ah grasshopper, no work! Sounded like I'd touched off a cherry bomb and the ends of the can were, uh, bulged quite a bit. :eek::eek:

The worst part, aside from the wife coming downstairs with blood in her eye was that I'd figured that hearing protection wouldn't be needed. DUMB!:eek::eek::eek:

A 55 gal drum lined with insulation sounds good though.
 
I’m a farmer in central Nebraska and when I occupied the house on my farm, I had one room set up for gunsmithing, reloading, etc and another room set up for shooting benchrest out a window.

For close to 15 years I used lighted targets at 50-100-200 yds and would do all my testing in the wee hours of the night. Nebraska is the fifth or sixth windiest state with very few days available for meaningful testing and experimentation in the daylight hours.

I once had the county sheriff visit me at 3am after getting reports of gunfire. We ended up drinking coffee, shooting, and BS’ing for over an hour. He even offered to explain to my neighbors, but since I knew them well, I just made a few phone calls and all was well.

My biggest problem was the sheriff and some of my neighbors wanting to join in on the fun. Sometimes it’s wonderful to live in a small rural community where everybody knows each other and gets along.
 
I recall reading that Hornady can make custom dies for forming wildcat cases using water. Pretty sure what I read had some pictures and details of the use of the dies and they did a good job with relatively little mess and bother.

Might be worth enquiring.
 
Fireform

I have been using an insulation roll out back of my shop for years. Just makes a "thud". You do have to get a new roll periodically, but they are cheap.......jackie
 
I have an old refigerator in back of my shop that is stuffed full of a roll of fiberglas insulation. I drilled a 2" hole in one side and can just step outside, sitck the muzzle in the hole and go thud. That is using a small amount of pistol powder and a paper wad in the case to hold the powder back against the primer. Makes for a nicely formed case. I might add that it is MOST important to hold the powder back against the primer. Otherwise you can have a detonation,.... but we have been thru that before....just be careful. I think I will be thinking about the hydroforming and see what i can come up with.
Donald
 
I like the insulation in a barrel trick. Your method may have been quite loud to the sensitive types and a friendly give and take effort can make for better neighbors. If you could bring it to a low muffled report during daylight hours I'd bet no one would worry or complain if you talk to them. Sure would be nice for all to know responsible shooting is a good thing and not to be feared.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Joel,
A lot if you are trying to do a years worth at a time. I do live in the country and don't have trouble, but I use to live in the city. I have had to drive 1 hr. to fireform and it ain't no fun.
Butch
 
Nader

I go through about 400 rounds of brass a year. The main reason is I go to every Two Gun Event with new cases, probably no less than 40 40. I fire them once with a 22 bullet in a standard .269 neck chamber, then neck turn them, and then fire them once more in the standard chamber to get them good and sharp. They are then ready to go to the line.
I may be over doing it on the brass, it is a lot of work. But I would rather use new brass and place high in the standings than try and save cases and be a regular 15th place finisher.........jackie
 
Brass life related post deleted.
Too far off the original topic of forming brass. ;)
Jim
 
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