Hunting Rifle Tuner

O

Octopus

Guest
I had an old 25-06 Browning A bolt barrel with a boss tuner laying on the shelf for the past three years. Last week I got around to cutting off the shank and rethreading it to fit my Rem 40X. I chambered it as a 25 BR. This is a very short, about 20", very thin light weight barrel. I put it on a 40X action in an Edge BR stock with a NightForce 42 scope. I think the scope was heavier than the barrel.

With the Boss Tuner adjusted to (5.0) the center of its range using 88 br BIB flat base bullets set lightly into the lands over a near full case of VV N-135 the very best I was able to do was about 3/4" groups at 100 yards.

Using the same load, I adjusted the tuner out to 5.4 and the group came down to about 3/8". I adjusted the tuner on out to 5.5 and the group got smaller, down to about 1/4". The tuner worked like magic!

In the past the boss tuners never gained much acceptance. I suspect this may be because the rifles they were on to often had other accuracy issues. The rifle used for this test was correct in all aspects so the only variable was the barrel and the 25 BR is a very accurate round. I was able to see the real effect of the boss tuner.

If you would like to see my report on this test PM me with your email address.
 
Another perspective ;)


I've been messing with tuners for 20+ years. I stopped for ten years and now I'm messing with them again :rolleyes:

It is MY OPINION that a tuner cannot make a barrel shoot better. In other words, I've never found a barrel that shoots better with a tuner than it shoots tuned conventionally. BUT IF BARREL SHOOTS . . . . . then a tuner can be a handy tool on the line.

In an oblique way I'm agreeing with you! :)

in my own slightly weird way

LOL

al
 
On the subject of barrel tuners.

Barrel tuners are said to find the "sweet spot" in the oscilation cycle, but in my humble opinion they are a waste of time. That special spot in the accuracy window can be found just as easily by systematic changes of seating depth on a non tuner equipped rifle. Many tuners also incorporate a muzzle brake and the extra bark of a muzzle break is never welcome. Tuners have been around for a long time now and if they were a viable substitute for good handloading practices everybody would have one. Having said all that, if you are having fun and the tuner is working for you by all means keep on experimenting. :D
 
Alinwa
I like my tuners because they don't let you shoot big groups.They may not let you shoot smaller groups but they also keep you from shooting bigger groups.
At the nationals last year my heavygun put 50 shots within 3/4 of an inch from the smallest group to the largest group.It was tuned at 100 yards instead of 600 yards and I believe this year it will do much better.
I got played by some bad mirage on my first group or the gun would have really done well.
Waterboy
 
Lynn said:
Alinwa
I like my tuners because they don't let you shoot big groups.They may not let you shoot smaller groups but they also keep you from shooting bigger groups.
At the nationals last year my heavygun put 50 shots within 3/4 of an inch from the smallest group to the largest group.It was tuned at 100 yards instead of 600 yards and I believe this year it will do much better.
I got played by some bad mirage on my first group or the gun would have really done well.
Waterboy
Click to expand...

Hmmmm,

that's reason enough if it's true.

I'm taking a tuner barrel to Sat match in Portland.

I just gotta' say one more time........ weighing charges to the kernel has perty much eliminated my tuning/big group problems. The only thing wrong with the system is me..... and that steeenking mirage.

al
 
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At the last WBC, the individual who took first place, used a tuner. I doubt he would have bothered if it made no difference.



The tuner that I used was one of Jackie's, of the original design, I used it in conjunction with a Sims Deresonator, on the barrel, just behind the tuner threads. Combined, they weighed about 5.25 oz.



I think that for a tuner to work properly, the whole system, barrel, action, and bedding, needs to be right. I should add that I don't particularly care if anyone is convinced about tuners, one way or the other. I am just reporting, in case someone is interested. This is a hobby. You get to do it your way. :D
 
I baught a Time Precision Supertuner about 10 - 15 years ago. I took one look at it...with it's adjustment range...25+ revolutions with 25 marks per revolution..= 625 different settings.......My thoughts........ thanks, but no thanks, and put it away for 10 years.

Years later I talked to the guys at Time Precision and he better explained it. Screw it all the way in, shoot 1 group at each setting for ONE revolution. He said I should find 3 "sweet spots". I quit after I found the second one. I think it was at # 17.

The gun was a factory Rem Varment Synthetic .220 swift. It was never really very accurate....and never shot very fast. I think pre tuner setup was 37 gr IMR 4064 / 55 molly NBT/ fed 210 at around 3700. Average was 3 shot groups of around 1/2 inch.

When I went to the tuner I loaded 39 GR of same. Groups were unchanged for the first 3 or 4 settings then # 5 shrank and # 6 shrank some more. # 7 went the other way. Group 16 shrank again, and group 17 went into .17". Group 18 went the other way. I shot 3 more groups at # 17 and all were under .2"

Now I am super excited. Next outing I was sure to bring a friend....you know...to show off. The three groups went around .3!!! I was a little stressed. It ended up tp be the air temp change. My first session the temps were around 45 - 50 degrees. The next outing it was well over 80. I didn't have my chrono with me, although it was a cheap piece of krap and I didn't trust it much, but I could tell that the loads were getting hotter, as I was getting slight PSI signs.

Another call to Time Precision confermed it.....faster loads need a different tune.:mad:

I pulled it off of the gun and put it back in the "pile of unused stuff".

I kind of want to try it on my Dasher BR gun, but, as has been well documented on the 1K fourm, I have been having "issues" with it, so I never have gotten a chance to try the tuner again.

I think it may well be worth trying.
 
Way back

A number of us found out the barrel tuners WORK.

Barrel tuners are much easier to play with on a rimfire; however I've seen the factory ones provided by Browning and Winchester on their centerfires turn in great results.

BTY those rubber ones that slide over the barrel also work. I have a rifle with two installed on the barrel and it just drives the other competitors nuts:)=
 
When tuning a barrel either by adjusting the powder charge or by moving a mechanical tuner on the end of the barrel the setting for the "tune" is best related to the Density Altitude, D.A. 500 Feet of Altitude is similar to a 5 deg F change in temperature.

On my better rifles I have found that tuning by powder charge to D.A. does work. Others have confirmed that setting tuners by D.A. does work. I am still in the early learning phase with the tuners.
 
Since my first report on this light weight barrel project I have spend several additional days at the range. I now have 129 rounds down the tube.

Generally the barrel will shoot groups of 3/4 to 1" when not in "Tune" using BIB's 88 Gr match bullets over N-135 and 75 Gr V Max bullets over N-133. When the tuner is adjusted to a "Tuned" condition the group will go to a horz line about 3/8" wide.

This is not as good as it sounds. The tune is very narrow. I could not keep the barrel in tune. With light barrel the temperature of the barrel is also and issue that impacts the tune.

My conclusion is the barrel is too light and too short to keep a reasonable tune. Time to give up and make changes.

I plan try a similar brake tuner on a longer and heavier 25 BR barrel in the next few weeks.
 
I enjoy reading about tests and the results. Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
 
Octopus said:
Since my first report on this light weight barrel project I have spend several additional days at the range. I now have 129 rounds down the tube.

Generally the barrel will shoot groups of 3/4 to 1" when not in "Tune" using BIB's 88 Gr match bullets over N-135 and 75 Gr V Max bullets over N-133. When the tuner is adjusted to a "Tuned" condition the group will go to a horz line about 3/8" wide.

This is not as good as it sounds. The tune is very narrow. I could not keep the barrel in tune. With light barrel the temperature of the barrel is also and issue that impacts the tune.

My conclusion is the barrel is too light and too short to keep a reasonable tune. Time to give up and make changes.

I plan try a similar brake tuner on a longer and heavier 25 BR barrel in the next few weeks.
Click to expand...

I went through this too.


Get a tune at home and it's no good in the field. Get a tune in the field and the weather changes and it's gone. OR.... worse yet.... I live in the West. Elevation changes completely change the tune.

al
 
Tuners

Anybody that knows me is familiar with my tuners on my Benchrest Rifles.

I think they are a valuable asset in helping stay on top of the tune.

I do believe that a tuner will not turn a mediocre barrel into a great barrel. But it will allow you to get what ever that barrel has to offer.......jackie
 
To Octopus.

Here is something that may help you with your tuner. Try drawing a graph of your results using standard graph paper, with the group size half above and half below the horizontal line and tuner settings equidistant across the horizontal axis. Use a scale of 40 to one and two datum lines for group size, one above and one below the horizontal axis and tuner settings equidistant across the page. If you shoot many different combinations and put the pieces of the puzzle together you will finish up with a total picture that looks like a stingray but each batch of tests will only represent a portion of the beast. The super sweet spot accuracy loads start small and taper smaller like you are on a portion of the tail. The promising loads that let you down, start wide and taper rapidly, like you are on a portion of the head. I believe that the reason we only see a small portion of the total picture with each batch of tests is that a rifle barrel ocilites far slower than a bullet takes to run the full length of the barrel.:confused:
 
Can you post and example of this graph.

This sound good to me. I want to be sure I understand it.

Thanks
 
To Octopus

Will attempt to post a picture as soon as I have a little time to spare. I am not very computer savvy but will give it a go. I must confess that I have never used a tuner but have been doing experiments with barrel vibrations for about three years and therefore know what an oscillation cycle looks like. Have tested my theory on rifles in 10 different calibers ,from 22 Hornet to 300 Win Mag. and the resulst have been universal. All I do is move the seating depth in large increments, this alters the muzzle exit time and puts the bullet into a different osillation phase, much the same as adjusting a tuner.:)
 
Here are the photos that I promised. To enlarge photos press control +
 

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just my opinion

most of the individuals that posted used tuners for competition. like jackie stated it just improves an already good barrel.
however in my opinion the boss tuners were made for hunting purposes. for example the individual that does not reload. he can try differing kinds of ammo in the rifle and when he finds one that shoots best then he can further tune the barrel for more accuracy. much like us reloaders use powder charges to tune the barrel into a high or low node for accuracy.
just my .02 Fred
 
To Fireball Fred

I really do not want to sabotage Octopuses thread, but have a look at graph #2 and you will see a way of finding the accuracy node without changing powder charges or using a Browning Boss.:)
 
i agree murph

when i work up a load i usually have a bullet i favor and try differing powders to see what my gun preferrs with the bullet .015 off the lands (the only exception are the solid copper bullets like barnes x, tsx, or tipped tsx, and hornadys e-tips then i start at .050.)
then i use that powder to do an audett test to find a node close to max posted in reloading books and visual signs but never over.
last i tune the OAL to the lands.
in my scenario however i never engage or engrave the bullet into the lands as occasionally i must eject the cartridge without firing the round. i partially size the necks with a button die to grip the bullet and the unsized portion will mainly center the cartridge to the bore with a once fired case.
thanks for the reminder as im sure some will benifit from the thread. Fred
 
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