Hunter class benchrest rifle
- Thread starter Bnhpr
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Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Since you are going so far as to order a custom reamer I feel compelled to ask have you considered the 30x47 based on Lapua 6.5x47 brass ?
The full size 308 which was many years ago very common in Hunter class is not often used these days. The 30x47 is very common.
If you are truly near Bangor Maine you might want to talk to Pete Wass in Hancock, Orland Bunker in Richmond and The Hills brothers in Belfast.
Contact me if you want information to get in touch with these hunter class shooters.
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
Most of us have -
I have several HBR rifles just now. Two are 30-44's, one is a 30-47 and one is a 30-284- 1.650 long. I had a 308 BAT a couple of years ago that was the best shooting rifle I have owned to date. It had a Shilen 1-17 and had 0 freebore. I shot light bullets in it and it loved em. .030 freebore will make shooting the short jacket bullets tough. I wouldn't go that much.
Down side of a 308 is the extra powder and recoil. The plus side is being able to easily buy dies for them. Dies are a costly piece of this deal and all said and done, the 308 isn't that bad to shoot. I shot mine with an aluminum butt plate on it and got use to it. It is difficult and expensive to get a good 30-47 full length sizing die made as it is a 30-44 or any custom chambering.
Also brass, 308 brass is less expensive then the 6.6-47 stuff. I have used Winchester brass for a number of years in my 30-44's with good success. I can't see any difference between the priimer size and accuracy and as long as one is "Prudent" with their loads, primer pockets are no problem.
I guess all said and done, I would go for the 308 if I had to start all over again. There is not much down side. You can always hold the reamer back to 1.750 and be near the minimum case capacity and still use the 308 dies, cut off; not a bad way to go. The neck angle doesn't seem to matter than much except for cases growing but they all grow anyway !
I have several HBR rifles just now. Two are 30-44's, one is a 30-47 and one is a 30-284- 1.650 long. I had a 308 BAT a couple of years ago that was the best shooting rifle I have owned to date. It had a Shilen 1-17 and had 0 freebore. I shot light bullets in it and it loved em. .030 freebore will make shooting the short jacket bullets tough. I wouldn't go that much.
Down side of a 308 is the extra powder and recoil. The plus side is being able to easily buy dies for them. Dies are a costly piece of this deal and all said and done, the 308 isn't that bad to shoot. I shot mine with an aluminum butt plate on it and got use to it. It is difficult and expensive to get a good 30-47 full length sizing die made as it is a 30-44 or any custom chambering.
Also brass, 308 brass is less expensive then the 6.6-47 stuff. I have used Winchester brass for a number of years in my 30-44's with good success. I can't see any difference between the priimer size and accuracy and as long as one is "Prudent" with their loads, primer pockets are no problem.
I guess all said and done, I would go for the 308 if I had to start all over again. There is not much down side. You can always hold the reamer back to 1.750 and be near the minimum case capacity and still use the 308 dies, cut off; not a bad way to go. The neck angle doesn't seem to matter than much except for cases growing but they all grow anyway !
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Pete,
Thanks for the info, but I'm not following you on the chambering procedure.
Your saying I should short chamber the rifle to 1.750 length, and cut the dies back to the same?
I have a ptg match 308 reamer, do I need to buy a different reamer?
Ben
R. G. Robinett
New member
"I'm trying to decide on a caliber for hunter for score class rifle. I was thinking about .308 winchester with a 17 twist barrel and a short freebore (.030" or so), for 110-118 grain bullets.
Does anyone have any experience with such a setup?
Who should I get the reamer from? "
Though, in your original post, you do not mention having a .308 reamer, yes, assuming that it's "known to be good" [reamer], a .308x1.75" long makes an excellent HBR round. Ideally, to assure uniform the neck-wall thickness, I believe your chamber neck should require neck truning. If your reamer has in excess of 0.030" freebore, combined with the typical 1.5 Dge. (3.0 Deg, included) throat angle, you'll probably be better served using longer/heavier bullets, which would make a 1:15" twist rate a better option. Although it's not carved in proverbial stone, opting for the full .308 will probably make the longer/heavier bullets a better choice also - this capacity is much better balanced with bullets weighing from 130 Gr. and up, usually, resulting in better precision. For the 110 -118 Gr. bullets, the 1,75" long capacity provides all the capacity you'll need. The "short" .308 is, essentially, a 30x44. Good shootin'! RG
Does anyone have any experience with such a setup?
Who should I get the reamer from? "
Though, in your original post, you do not mention having a .308 reamer, yes, assuming that it's "known to be good" [reamer], a .308x1.75" long makes an excellent HBR round. Ideally, to assure uniform the neck-wall thickness, I believe your chamber neck should require neck truning. If your reamer has in excess of 0.030" freebore, combined with the typical 1.5 Dge. (3.0 Deg, included) throat angle, you'll probably be better served using longer/heavier bullets, which would make a 1:15" twist rate a better option. Although it's not carved in proverbial stone, opting for the full .308 will probably make the longer/heavier bullets a better choice also - this capacity is much better balanced with bullets weighing from 130 Gr. and up, usually, resulting in better precision. For the 110 -118 Gr. bullets, the 1,75" long capacity provides all the capacity you'll need. The "short" .308 is, essentially, a 30x44. Good shootin'! RG
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B
Barrel Saver
Guest
Most Popular Hunter Class Rifle
The winners equipment lists, published with Match Results, show an overwhelming majority of your Hunter Class competitors are shooting and winning with the 30x44 and 30x47. There must be a reason for such popularity...easily made cases, mild recoil, consistent accuracy....think about it!
Pete is correct with the zero free bore recommendation. Stan Ware would be a good choice for a gunsmith and he can make your dies too! Randy Robinett, of BIB Bullets fame, is an excellent source for Hunter Class info. Just some friendly suggestions from TK, I have no vested interest in these folks, I just know they make great stuff!
The winners equipment lists, published with Match Results, show an overwhelming majority of your Hunter Class competitors are shooting and winning with the 30x44 and 30x47. There must be a reason for such popularity...easily made cases, mild recoil, consistent accuracy....think about it!
Pete is correct with the zero free bore recommendation. Stan Ware would be a good choice for a gunsmith and he can make your dies too! Randy Robinett, of BIB Bullets fame, is an excellent source for Hunter Class info. Just some friendly suggestions from TK, I have no vested interest in these folks, I just know they make great stuff!
I was going to buy another reamer, or have this one reworked for less freebore (if that's possible?). I have never used it, I just picked it up in a batch of reamers for rifles down the road.
I'm new to gunsmithing, but have lots of time on the lathe, so I'm doing research at this point.
I plan to build this rifle myself.
The case length is normally 2.015, so I hold the reamer back .265" and cut ..265 off my FL resizer die?
G
Gerry
Guest
hunter class benchrest rifle.
Yes you can have the free bore taken off. any good reamer company can do this clymer is one kiff ptg. etc. To these guys it's no big thing. they also can re sharpen your reamer if it gets dull.
Yes you can have the free bore taken off. any good reamer company can do this clymer is one kiff ptg. etc. To these guys it's no big thing. they also can re sharpen your reamer if it gets dull.
R. G. Robinett
New member
Yes, this is doable - in the "old days" (early to mid 1980s), shortened .308s were common. You should thououghly check the "fit" between your reamer diameters and the potential FL die which you intend to cut off - assuring a compatible "fit" will prevent difficult primary extraction: the web diameter (datun @ .200" ahead of the bolt-face, or, just above the extractor groove) of the FL die should be 0.0025" to 0.003" smaller than the corrosponding chamber diameter. Whether you have your reamer reground, or, order a new reamer, discuss this with the reamer maker - you'll be glad you did! IF you opt for a new reamer, I'd follow Pete's advice regarding a .30x47 Lapua version. Good shootin'! RG
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RG,
What is the basic process for making my brass? Can I just run this die over new .308 brass, and trim the neck?
Ben
R. G. Robinett
New member
Yes, that's what Terry and I used to do - this assumes that you mean a shortened .308 FL die - it works well.
RG
Should I just neck size after the brass is fire formed?
R. G. Robinett
New member
This is a matter of personal opinion/choice. Though a "late bloomer", I now prefer a FL size on the body and a slight shoulder "bump", using either a FL/NK bushing type die, or, a FL die featuring a predetermined & dedicated neck-size diameter. There's nothing like being able to, as Jim Goody would say, "run 'em like the Russians are coming!", without disturbing the set-up:"proper" full length resizing accommodates easy loading, locking and extraction.
RGThis is a matter of personal opinion/choice. Though a "late bloomer", I now prefer a FL size on the body and a slight shoulder "bump", using either a FL/NK bushing type die, or, a FL die featuring a predetermined & dedicated neck-size diameter. There's nothing like being able to, as Jim Goody would say, "run 'em like the Russians are coming!", without disturbing the set-up:"proper" full length resizing accommodates easy loading, locking and extraction.
I was trying to come up with a procedure to cut this chamber to the right length. I have a .308 go gauge, Do I measure the gap between the barrel and reciever (.265")? Is there a better way? I have never cut a chamber without a go gauge.
I guess a few thousands either way is not a big deal, as it is with a standard cartridge, since I will be making the die to fit the chamber? (-.003")
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It is a fairly big pain - -
In the tookus getting a full length sizing die made for a 30-47. I just got a reluctant quote from a great die maker who wanted the finish reamer and a number of fired cases. One would think that as long as the 30-47 has been out, there might be a standard die that one might be able to buy without tieing up one's gunsmith's finish reamer to make a simple Full Lenght die.
I can see clearly Gene Beggs attempt to standardize dies. Why in de woild hasn't this happened way before this?
From my experience, the majority of shooters currently want to run their rifles like Randy says; as if the Russians were coming. This may not be the way it use to be but it is now what i think most of us want to do. Why can't we have some kind of standards if only for the sake of being able to keep our brass in good working order?
In the final analysus, it becomes all about barrels and who is driving them. The chamberings mean Jack - - - - as far as i can see. While it is easier to shoot minimum case capacity, tuning sometimes becomes an issue. Yes, I can get behind a 308; minimum neck turn and no freebore. I think it best to leave the necks as thick as they can be and still give concistent neck tension.
In the tookus getting a full length sizing die made for a 30-47. I just got a reluctant quote from a great die maker who wanted the finish reamer and a number of fired cases. One would think that as long as the 30-47 has been out, there might be a standard die that one might be able to buy without tieing up one's gunsmith's finish reamer to make a simple Full Lenght die.
I can see clearly Gene Beggs attempt to standardize dies. Why in de woild hasn't this happened way before this?
From my experience, the majority of shooters currently want to run their rifles like Randy says; as if the Russians were coming. This may not be the way it use to be but it is now what i think most of us want to do. Why can't we have some kind of standards if only for the sake of being able to keep our brass in good working order?
In the final analysus, it becomes all about barrels and who is driving them. The chamberings mean Jack - - - - as far as i can see. While it is easier to shoot minimum case capacity, tuning sometimes becomes an issue. Yes, I can get behind a 308; minimum neck turn and no freebore. I think it best to leave the necks as thick as they can be and still give concistent neck tension.
Ben, if you're willing to have the reamer reworked, I'd sure advise sending it to Dave Kiff at PTG and having him redo it to work with the 6.5X47 Lapua brass. Expanded to .30, the 6.5x47 Lapua case ends up about 1.810 long. With 118-125's based on the 1.00" long jackets, the resulting case volume lands you squarely in the middle of a lot of powders that work really well....N133, N135, Benchmark, etc. Chamber neck diameters from .332-.335 work well for this setup.
Dies for this are pretty simple..a standard Wilson 30BR seater with your reamer run in makes for a great seating die. A Redding 6.5X47 Lapua 'Type S' Full Length Bushing die (pn. 77479) is a nice way to go for a f.l. sizing die that f.l. sizes, decaps and neck sizes all in one pass...just open the die a bit to accomodate the .30 cal. necks.
If you want to experiment with freebore a bit, you can have the reamer done with no freebore on it and have Dave supply you with a throater so you can throat in a seperate operation. Which ever way you go, make sure and have some discussions about throat diameter as well.
If you decide to go the 'full length' .308W route, I'd follow Randy's excellent advice and work with barrels twisted 1:15 and the 134-ish BIB Bullets on the 1.080 jackets. Powders in the N140 range work well with this combo. Freebore length/diameter are as as critical to this combo as it is to the short .30's.
Good shootin'. -Al
Excellent info Al, appreciate the response and from RG and Pete too.
I'm saving all these threads for future reference material.
You guys really push the competetive edge with this stuff.
I try to think outside the box sometimes, so try not to laugh.
Has anyone ever tried using a 30-30 case? Or is that just crazy with the rim?
The other case I thought was interesting was the 30tc?
Pete Wass
Well-known member
There are 30-30 type cases -
I started my BR shooting witha used Rem. 700 in a 30 HC which is a 30-30 case blown ahead a bit and the rims turned to fit in a 308 bolt face. There are others to like the Aardvark; same sort of work on the rims; a real pain if one wants to have enough cases to pre-load. There have been some pure 30-30's made too. A couple of years ago there was discussion about a fellow in Texas who makes them. I think there have been others.
The 308- 300 Savage- lapua 6.5-47 cases are easier to work with and better quality of brass. I will say again, dies are the worst part of the whole deal next to SCOPES, that is !
I started my BR shooting witha used Rem. 700 in a 30 HC which is a 30-30 case blown ahead a bit and the rims turned to fit in a 308 bolt face. There are others to like the Aardvark; same sort of work on the rims; a real pain if one wants to have enough cases to pre-load. There have been some pure 30-30's made too. A couple of years ago there was discussion about a fellow in Texas who makes them. I think there have been others.
The 308- 300 Savage- lapua 6.5-47 cases are easier to work with and better quality of brass. I will say again, dies are the worst part of the whole deal next to SCOPES, that is !
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30/30, but not with a lever action though...
The two Texan's were Sam Weaver and Mike Turner who regularily shot Hunter with the common 30/30 Winchester case. Did right fine too. This was part of Mike's proof that it's the barrel, bullet, and shooter quality that counts the most.
The two Texan's were Sam Weaver and Mike Turner who regularily shot Hunter with the common 30/30 Winchester case. Did right fine too. This was part of Mike's proof that it's the barrel, bullet, and shooter quality that counts the most.
What attracts me to the hunter class is the limitations. I especially like the 6x scope rule. I like to shoot reciever sights also. I am fortunate to have good eyes, and can put a good barreled action together, so I feel I can have at least a snowballs chance in hell of being competetive, maybe.
The Varmint for score looks like an extreme accuracy game, won from the lathe, and bank account. Everyone seems to use a 13lb 30BR rifle with an expensive custom action.
I'm more interested in the challenge of Hunter and maybe getting into long range, although there doesn't seem to be much long range around where I live.