How to load down a 340 Weatherby Mag?

As papapaul mentioned--

60% of any published load with H 4895 ONLY according to Hodgdon website.

I dont know if the caliber mentioned has any published loads with H4895 (NOT IMR) has such loads published. Check the Hodgdon site for that also.

I have loaded 60% and 70% loads for my granddaughter and she did an elk with it.

Hodgdon makes NO mention of fillers etc.
 
WHEWWWW!!!!

I just read this thread....

PLEASE don't make loads containing Cream Of Wheat!!! Even kapok loads are designed for TARGET SHOOTING AND FIREFORMING not for hunting. Wadding a piece of paper on top of your powder charge WILL NOT keep it in place through miles of travel in planes trains and automobiles eh!!! Not to mention the actual HUNTING.....


Unless you can find listed loads containing ONLY POWDER please don't start experimenting with this huge case unless you like Quiet World......and kapok is NOT the only common pillow filler. In fact kapok is kinda' hard to get, it's the silky down of the seedpod of the tropical Ceiba plant. You'll need to find old stuffing or "organic" IME. Most of the fillers used today are petroleum based and will ruin your rifle and possibly your day.

Reduced loads are strange stuff and if you decide to use them please use only the components listed, don't even switch primers.

Statements like this >> "Thinking this through, it seems that a fella could decrease the charge all the way down to the smallest 338 cartridge as long as the powder is pushed tight against the case web. Because the net result is simply constriction of powder capacity. Same as if the case was smaller. Theoretically, at least." <<< are flat out scary!!! This is NOT TRUE....... not even close.

be careful out there


al
 
The worst case scenario is a detonation. This is a initial partial combustion which pressurizes the main charge causing it to "hi-order" or actually detonate rather than burn. You can also get a detonation from extreme temperatures, usually cold. I have had 81 grs of 4831 detonate in a 300 win mag from extreme cold and it didn't hurt ther rifle, just smooshed the brass. I have fired a compressed load of bulleseye in a .357 Ruger blackhawk and had no damage to the gun. Before you can have damage, you either have to have enough chemical energy to cause catastrophic damage, or, most common, you have a rupture at a weak point putting your gasses into a place they will cause damage. I don't think 50 grs of rifle powder has enough chemical energy to wreck a quality 340 WM. Certain cartridge/action combinations are more prone to rupture than others. Pistols, shotguns, and vintage designs.
 
The .340 is not a middle of the road caliber... it is a very potent large caliber. Not much will out perform it in a 26 inch barrel.

It boggles my mind ... the idea of buying a .340 and trying to load it way down... any chance of a detonation would prevent me from experimenting. A detonation usually destroys the firearm. There is no warning as you approach that load.

Why not buy a 30-06 for 30-06 performance?
 
Bill Wynne said:
P. Franklin,

Don't go with any of these loads. Get you a good manuel and don't go with any loads that are not found in there. These many be very safe loads but you are dealing with a small cannon or a hand-grenade just inches from your head.

Granted, it is your head and those reduced loads might work. I hope you get my drift.

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Love the analogy "hand-grenade", thats a funny one!
 
papapaul said:
The worst case scenario is a detonation. This is a initial partial combustion which pressurizes the main charge causing it to "hi-order" or actually detonate rather than burn. You can also get a detonation from extreme temperatures, usually cold. I have had 81 grs of 4831 detonate in a 300 win mag from extreme cold and it didn't hurt ther rifle, just smooshed the brass. I have fired a compressed load of bulleseye in a .357 Ruger blackhawk and had no damage to the gun. Before you can have damage, you either have to have enough chemical energy to cause catastrophic damage, or, most common, you have a rupture at a weak point putting your gasses into a place they will cause damage. I don't think 50 grs of rifle powder has enough chemical energy to wreck a quality 340 WM. Certain cartridge/action combinations are more prone to rupture than others. Pistols, shotguns, and vintage designs.
Click to expand...

papa,

I don't believe you had a detonation with 81gr. We've detonated rifle powder using primary explosives like AP and I can assure you 81gr has more than enough energy to take apart a rifle action! Of course, as you know it all comes down to how fast you get full involvement...... OTOH, I know of people who've been KILLED by rifles exploding from under 30gr of smokeless powder. I think that 50gr will easily grenade any rifle action. (And the grenade analogy isn't really funny :( I use it every few mo in my Hunter Ed classes.)

As per the "compressed load of Bullseye in the Ruger"....... WTH??? How does this apply?

al
 
PFranklin
70 grains of Reloader 22 under a 215 grain Sierra Spitzer is a nice mild load for deer to 250 yards.The 340 is nothing more than a 300 Weatherby necked up to accept a 338 bullet.
The only time you would use Cream Of Wheat is when making your brass from 300 H-H or 375 H-H cases.I use 15 grains of Red Dot then fill the case completely full of Cream Of Wheat.Once the case is full tap on the outside of it so the C.O.W. settles to almost the bottom of the neck then put a 1/4 sheet of toilet paper on top of it with a small screwdriver.When you pull the trigger you now have 340 Weatherby brass.
I don't use any fillers but the plastic they wrap houses with called Tyvek has been used without any ill affects on cases as big as the 50 bmg.
Waterboy
 
Jeez you're touchy today, granny.

I'll call Hodgdon and see what they have to say about the 60% thing. If fillers aren't necessary or even a good idea, that's all the better. Less hassle. Will post their response.
 
pfranklin said:
Jeez you're touchy today, granny.
Click to expand...

What a maroon......

I'm tempted to just say "go ahead, do it your way... knock yourself out" but for the sake of our collective shooting and reloading future I'll refrain.

Sometimes it surprises me that we're still allowed to play with things that go boom.

al
 
Sounds to me like someone needs to do some reading. The first I know of anyone putting the information about the dangers of reduced loads came from the late P.O. ACKLEY because of surplus powders that were so common after the second world war. You can still read the information in his two volume set of books.
 
Bill Wynne said:
Enough of the nice guy talk.

Pfranklin!

You really are determined to kill yourself!​

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Bill
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???????
The guy is asking how to download his gun for milder loads and you somehow think he is trying to kill himself?????? Please explain this!!!!!
Waterboy
 
Reduced loads are bloody dangerous.

If Hogdons lists a 60% load for H4895 then this is neat, good information to have, BUT! ...........just arbitrarily dropping low charges, especially low charges of slow burning powders like 4831, H1000, RL22 etc is asking for trouble. Maybe this H4895 info will give pfranklin something to work with.

The mechanism of blowups from reduced charges is poorly understood with terms like "detonation" and "powder plugging the neck" and "complete involvement of the powder charge" being thrown about in an attempt at explaining the phenomenon. BUT IT DOES HAPPEN! This is incontestable.

Changing the "burn rate" of your propellant will result in some weirdnesses, as papapaul lists earlier he has 81gr go overpressure in cold weather.... "detonation???" I don't rightly know. IMO if it WAS a detonation it involved only a very small remaining portion of the charge. In my limited experience detonating smokeless powder causes it to unload energy like dynamite but it takes a really fast hit to detonate it, something on the order of 20,000 ft/sec. Using the wrong powder, a "fast" burning powder when a "slow" powder is called for can cause blowups from overpressure WITHOUT detonation...... powder mixups which result in extremely rapid deflagration will take rifle actions apart. I can think of several examples...... a well known benchrester was killed by a mixup of pistol powder in a PPC. The energy is there and available and it needs to be correctly channeled. If it isn't the result can be catastrophic.

I dislike large cases and slow powders for this reason. I've never been present during a blowup but have seen my share of UNDER-pressure events which oddly enough can be the precursor to an OVER-pressure event. I consider myself lucky. I try to learn from my luck! :)

I'm an experimental type, I'd feel safe exploring the 60% H4895 loads........ but I'll never attempt to come up with my own reduced loads using another unlisted powder and a big case.

Life's too short, then you die.



BTW Lynn, how do you use Tyvek? IME it's like tough fabric, how do you use it as filler?


al
 
A couple of the articles that I have read on the subject of using too little of a slow powder called the phenomenon the Secondary Explosion Effect (I believe). They gave examples where the offending load was known. The rifles involved blew up in a violent and dangerous manner, with no warning. The upshot was that one should never go below the minimum published load, especially with slow powders.
 
Alinwa
I think PFranklin came on here looking for some good advice and didn't get much in the way of a reduced load.
What I didn't understand was how it is he who was bound and determined to blow himself up.If he wanted to blow himself up why bother asking for reduced loads? I see nothing from him showing HE is headed in a bad direction.Some of the advice given sounds like guess work at best.

On the Tyvek it is used to get a compressed load with a hotter burning powder and to aid in frontal ignition.Flashtubes can be used to accomplish the same thing.When building duplex/triplex loads it can be used as a seperating wad between the powders if they are not loaded as a mixture/blend.

I'm pretty sure he was looking for data like this below but all I have for the 340 Weatherby in the form of reduced loads is the light bullet load listed above.

Reduced loads using 2400 or 4759
.222---11 gr.
.223---12 gr.
22-250 15 gr.
6mm BR 14-16 gr.
.243 win. 18 gr.----(( Longshot 13 gr..(25 cliks Culver))--((lil' gun -20 gr(32 cliks Culver))
270 win. 20 gr.
7mm Mag. 30 gr.
.30-06 sprng. 23 gr.
.300 win mag. 33 gr.

with Longshot use 75% of 2400 charge wt.
with N-110 and Lil' Gun use 110% of 2400 charge wt.
with Universal Clays use 75% of Lil' Gun or N-110 charge wt.

Waterboy
 
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Lynn said:
Alinwa
I think PFranklin came on here looking for some good advice and didn't get much in the way of a reduced load.
What I didn't understand was how it is he who was bound and determined to blow himself up.If he wanted to blow himself up why bother asking for reduced loads? I see nothing from him showing HE is headed in a bad direction.Some of the advice given sounds like guess work at best.
Waterboy
Click to expand...

Lynn,
I have given PFranklin solid advice.

I don't believe for a second that he is suicidal. What I am trying to tell him is that what he is is trying could be very dangerous. He should not take advice from people who he doesn't know off the internet.

If he cannot get good advice from Sierra or Hodgdon, then who are we to tell him how to download a .340 Weatherby other than what the loading manuals say.

Let me ask you how you would feel if you opened up a paper and the headlines read "PFranklin in serious condition"? I know you don't want that.

I chose to err on the side of safety.

Concho Bill
 
Bill. FWIW, S&W did experiments with C4 in their guns to determine how much chemical energy it takes to destroy them. They did this to debunk the myth that a double load of Bullseye would wreck their revolvers. In a former life, 40 years ago, I was one of those 20 year old Lieutenants you hear so many stories about. US Army Ordnance Corps Ammo type, EOD, etc. we played around with all kinds of stuff. At some point you come to have an understanding of what is really happening. My friends included ammunition survelliance types who investigated accidents involving ammunition malfunctions. It was almost never the ammo. That is why I don't give much credence to anicdotal evidence of "heard of somebody getting blown up". If those incidents occurred at all, they were probably not investigated by competent technicians to determine cause. However, that being said, it is always best to err on the side of safety, we had an explosion proof bunker and used remote firing controls.
 
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reduced pressure loads

"P"franklin....notice post #36 above...there you are given several good recomdations using powders that are designed to burn properly at reduced pressures (20-40,000 psi) . This is the pressure range that is necessary to get reliable ignition with the reduced velocities that you have requested.
In post 36 you are given powder charge recomendations that can be used for typical squib/turkey loads and can be increased from 1600 fps clear up to 2100 fps using small to mid size bullets aplicable to the cal. in question. There are other powders that can be used when loading 2000-2800 fps with same bullets...4198 and 4895 are two commonly used propellants....
YOU realize (hows that for grammar) that many have only posted to be heard and know little to nothing about reduced vel./press. loads and have only said "dont do it".....sorta like saying dont stand in front of the gun!!....There are many loads given in the Lyman manuals about this very type of load...they are "the" cast bullet mold manufacture and supplier that has done the most corporate testing and load evaluation in this arena...If you will consult one of their manuals you will find much valuable info about this subject,,and there are many of us "unknown" shooter out here that can help...contact me off line if you like and i will give what little knowledge I have to share on the matter.....Roger
 
There is some good information on this thread about SEE. Scroll down and take a look.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2173819/page/1/fpart/1
As they discuss, the problem occurs when loading down too low with powders that were not designed to do so. The progressive burn turns into an explosion. I didn't say that a reduced load could not be produced, only to stick to the book when doing so, because there are factors that are not commonly known that are involved. Tests that do not involve this particular situation do not apply, and the assumption that they do is, IMO, dangerous.
 
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