how to beat a Calfee rifle with a cmp rifle

Tuning

Martin,
Would you tune my rifle for me if I send it to you? I have three tournaments coming up in the next three weeks and I sure could use some help.
I'll probably have to shoot against Beau and several other Calfee guns. Sure would be some good advertising for you. I'm shooting a custom gun but I have a CMP 40X if you would rather I use it.
Gene

Look's like I'll have to shoot my rifle untuned. Can anyone get a direct answer out of Martin?:confused::confused:
Gene
 
No, well maybe, see it's like this, could be, most likely not, remains to be seen.

Kinda like one of them old 8 balls.
 
8 Ball

Beau,

You forgot my favorite. Please try again later.
 
derek how did i create a monster?
i took my civilian heavy barreled 40x with a tuner
to altoona set it on zero handed it to marty with
a harrel tuner and von aherns weight set and said
here it is show me how to tune it. he sat down for
probably 2 hrs. shooting 3 different speeds of ammo
and keeping track of every group found 3 really good
spots, then we picked the best one and started added
weight half oz at a time till groups shrank smaller and
then started getting larger, then checked the other
settings, and stuck with the first. the gun shoots
different lots well now, even tried some wolf mt that wouldn't
shoot before it does much better now. i told marty with
the scores he was shooting to get to some matchs to
see if he could do as well under some pressure, he finally
did at anderson creek first outing he did okay didn't fall
apart, came to fairchance first match actually scored a 245
he was kinda nervous i think, i was thinking uhhuh a little
harder ain't it. 2nd target shot a 250, i thought oh well a
fluke, 3rd target another 250, uhoh, maybe not. this was a
Sanctioned match! first Sanctioned match shot 2 250s, not
many do that, mckeesport had already had their last match
that was our last match, he went to anderson creeks unsanctioned
match and did very well their last match. now the one at fort hand
is the only other one within 2 hrs drive. i created a monster i guess
by asking a guy to try tuning my rifle which he did no charge, i told
him to get out and get his feet wet, he did. don't we encourage
people to get involved and shoot, he has. haven't you all done the
same. how many monsters have you created this year that have done
as much? i need to get out to other match's myself next year. i've only
shot at fairchance and anderson creek, and derek haven't you just shot
at buckcreek? i plan on getting to mckeesport and mountain state next
year. didn't almost all the ranges people shoot at now start out as
unsanctioned matchs? didn't chet amick shoot mainly unsanctioned matchs?
 
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Chet Amick did shoot unsanctioned matches, which is why he had a loyal but very small following. You know the article in PS said his guns would bring $10,000. Did the one for sale here for $5,000 ever sell?
 
Chet Amick did shoot unsanctioned matches, which is why he had a loyal but very small following. You know the article in PS said his guns would bring $10,000. Did the one for sale here for $5,000 ever sell?

Very small following??? You better put down the kool aid and do yourself some homework there Beau because his following was high, his batting average was higher, and he never cobbled togeather anything from spare parts in his life.
 
Very small following in a very localized area. It may have seemed like a large following in the area. Most people had never heard of him until PS did the article. Did that gun ever sell? It was priced at half value.
 
ask people around the hagerstown area that beau. i'd heard of him
for years, people always spoke well of him.
 
Very small following in a very localized area. It may have seemed like a large following in the area. Most people had never heard of him until PS did the article. Did that gun ever sell? It was priced at half value.

Most people from Kentucky never heard of him maybe. I did'nt realize the east coast was small and localized. Beau, trust me....quit when you're behind, you don't know what you don't know.
 
me and tim don't agree on much, but beau in this case
you don't want to go there. you'll probably find out in
the next few days.
 
ask people around the hagerstown area that beau. i'd heard of him
for years, people always spoke well of him.

Don't doubt it a bit. But that's small and localized. The east coast is a big place and just a part of it is small and localized as well. That's just a fact. I'm not saying anything bad about Amick and certainly do not wish to discredit or disrespect him in anyway. I'm just saying most people hadn't heard of him until the PS article came out. That's why the rifle that was on here either never sold or sold for significantly less than was asked even though it was supposed to be worth double that.

In 1992, I think it was, I went to a match in Lexington, KY. First BR match I ever went to. I was carrying, although I didn't shoot, a nice custom 10/22. I asked somebody there who built the nice rigs that were on the benches. They pointed at this big tall guy and said "ask him, he's the best .22 gunsmith in country" (now you can argue that all you want but those were the exact words). I found out his name, which was Bill Calfee, kinda assessed him and pretty much decided 1)he didn't look like he could build a doghouse to me, 2) I had never heard of him and I pretty much read every gun magazine known to man. I pretty much dismissed it as BS. Turns out the guy had a heavy following in Indiana and parts of Kentucky and especially in the silhouette area, which I had also shot. Still, I hadn't heard of him. Anyway,the point is his following was heavy in the area but small in reality; just localized to appear heavy (people tend to see things from their own perspective). Now, did he do a good job marketing himself? Yes he did, but he never shied from a sanctioned match and he pretty much traveled the country shooting and winning (for all you guys that say he can't or doesn't shoot); he built guns for others for sanctioned matches and he wanted his guns shot in the most competitive arena possible. So, yeah he marketed himself but apparently he had something to market because I have the feeling the shamwow won't be around twenty years from now. And his following or notoriety,as it may be, is not small and localized.


Truth is, and I realized this years ago, the best gunsmith is the one that is good enough to do the job, close enough for you to get to to you, and willing to do the work. There are several good gunsmiths out there and most of their names are well known but it's only for two reasons and it takes both these days. 1) The internet, and 2)They either shot, shoot or have people using their rifles in sanctioned matches. Otherwise, their following is small and localized. Think about it. Would you have yet to here about Roger Brock or Richard Gorham if there was not internet and they only made guns for themselves that they shot locally. I doubt it, yet they've prove themselves to be among the elite rimfire gunsmiths.

I understand that you guys had strong feelings for Chet Amick. That's great. Unfortunately, probably more so for us than him, he never did enter the real competitive arena. He chose to do what he did in a small local area and he built a name but there was no real proof of his work (and no I'm not questioning what he did). If everything you guys have said about him and what was written about him in PS is true, (and I'm not saying it's not) and people had known it, the rifle would have brought $10,000. As it is, it didn't. Now he may later become famous, but it will be a long time. I had never heard of a Womack action, and I've only seen one, but I regularly get beat by it. I've researched that and found this guy was quite the gunsmith a long time ago. Of course, there again, his guns were built for the
competitive arena and not just for him or not just to shoot locally.

With that, I've said all I have to say about Chet Amick. He deserves respect.
 
i referred to chet as someone who shot, and was highly respected
for that, i thought we were talking about people not traveling very
far to shoot in matchs, i tried to explain there aren't that many left here,
at this time of year. they have indoor bottle cap matchs that's about it.
not everything on this forum is about bill calfee. there's alot more
of this country than kentucky and indiana and it sounds like if you
haven't driven the back roads you've missed a lot of kentucky.
 
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i referred to chet as someone who shot, and was highly respected
for that, i thought we were talking about people not traveling very
far to shoot in matchs, i tried to explain there aren't that many left here,
at this time of year. they have indoor bottle cap matchs that's about it.
not everything on this forum is about bill calfee. there's alot more
of this country than kentucky and indiana and it sounds like if you
haven't driven the back roads you've missed a lot of kentucky.


Yeah Tom, I'm a city boy so that coal truck thing just kinda fascinates me. Except for the 15 years that I spent in the coal fields I have no experience with such a thing. I driven so many of the back roads of Kentucky that I have the back road driver syndrome. I have to remember to slow down if I have people with me because it scares the hell out of them.

Amazingly enough, I've been a little farther than Indiana and even once to a place outside Pittsburg just to get a part for mining equipment. You guys ain't holding nothing that I see as special (guns and God and all that about like Kentucky). As of right now I've missed one state and I plan on getting there at some point. And it's not Alaska, I even did a little stint up there for a few weeks determining if our company wanted to purchase some equipment for sale there. But this is a big country, it's hard to cover it all if you have been in all fifty states.

I've even been out of the good old US of A on occasion. So, they do let us rural backwoods Kentucky boys cross the border every now and then.

And by the way, I don't make everything on this board about Calfee. It seems to happen naturally. It even happens a lot at matches. He's a personality. Good or bad people love to make comments about him. Whether you like it or not or admit it or not, that's just a sign of success. If Martin becomes very successful with his supertuning ways, he'll have the same noteriety. Comes with the territory I guess.
 
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if you're actually printed out bill's posts like some of us did,
you'll see where i asked him if he's ever changed or rethought
any of the methods and things he came up with, he said nope.
now i know he was the one that came up with tuning with the
different ammo at 42 yards, so since he's never changed his
ways of thinking that means he still does the different speed
ammo at 42 yards tuning. did he deviate from his normal way
of doing things on your rifle? sounds like it. by the way glad
to hear you aren't all city bound up, nothing like taking an
old coal truck road especially if you're in the coal truck. give
marty a chance to sink or swim so far he's been floatin' like
a duck. at first i didn't know if he would go to many match's
now he's telling me about some like the one at fort hand. i
thought they were done for the year too, after that i guess
it's bottle caps for me, and the range when winter permits it.
 
I find it hard to believe that Calfee said he had never rethought or changed his mind on anything, when he has publically acknowledged exactly that on this board. But maybe he did. I'm not like a lot of people. I don't copy and save this stuff. I never expect to be sued over it, but you never know. I hardly ever contradict myself and even if I did could probably convince you that I didn't.

But to the 42 yard test and did he deviate. The answer is no he did not. What you don't understand and I don't want to try to explain it because I don't fully understand it is that Calfee has the rifle close to tune before he shoots it. He's written about it, but most people don't get it and I don't think you would unless you saw it.

But, he shot my rifle at 50 yards. Shot, twisted the tuner, shot twisted the tuner and that was it. He then moved the target in to 42 yards and shot with different velocity ammo, and they grouped together. Not once, but every time. Now, I'm not saying that you can do this all the time because I, for one, do not believe all ammo is created equal. If it was, we would simply go to Wal-mart and buy the cheapest stuff and shoot it. So, if there can be differences there, then why can there be no differences in the same brand?

Anyway, the 42 yard grouping is a test, but you could simply reverse the process and set the tuner at 42 yards and it should work and I'm sure Calfee has done that. Basically, six of one and half dozen of the other. After the 42 yard test was through, he moved back to 50 yards and we shot the rifle until it was too dark to see. We shot ammo without regard to velocity or lot# and the rifle performed as it should. Since we were using no flags, Bill shot somewhat better than me. He is as good a windreader as there is but generally uses natural indicators instead of setting flags. I need the flags.
 
thanks, what i said should be in the book if all is included.
i have it here somewhere in the stack of printouts. i asked
him, to find out if he had ever found, that his previous methods
could have been flawed, when he came back and said no i
was kinda shocked, most people don't get things right the
first time do they? anyway, i thought he knows alot more than
i do about this stuff so i'm not going to argue about it. either
that or he's not going to admit it. oh well. that's the nice thing
about computers and printers you can print it and it's in black
and write even if it's deleted. books as well.
 
Very small following in a very localized area. It may have seemed like a large following in the area. Most people had never heard of him until PS did the article. Did that gun ever sell? It was priced at half value.

Well let's see, about 20% of the silver/gold HOF IR50 level, 3 of the best makers of match .22 barrels, at least one olympic team, guys that called and offered him at least $10,000 to build a gun after being hoodwinked by others, I don't know Beau that seems like a bigger area than you heard. Perhaps you were thinking Neptune? Venus? With all do respect...you don't know what you don't know.
 
Well let's see, about 20% of the silver/gold HOF IR50 level, 3 of the best makers of match .22 barrels, at least one olympic team, guys that called and offered him at least $10,000 to build a gun after being hoodwinked by others, I don't know Beau that seems like a bigger area than you heard. Perhaps you were thinking Neptune? Venus? With all do respect...you don't know what you don't know.
]]

But couldn't sell one for $5,000 after being offered $10,000. And that's posthumous. They usually go up.

I don't understand the first part of your post. Did he do all that, claim all that, or what. I mean for instance what does "3 of the best makers of match .22 barrels mean". And was he on the Olympic team? Which year?
 
i first heard of him when i asked has anyone ever shot a 250 25x
ir 5050 score, my old friend jack said yep but it's been in unsanctioned
matchs, but he did it in front of witnesses more than a couple of times,
his name is chet amick and he's a heck of a gunsmith too, you don't hear
much of him because he don't talk himself up any. but everyone knows he
can shoot. then later i read about him in p.s. i thought maybe it was just
a story till then. i wonder who got his reamers, they apparently were pretty
special too.
 
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