How important is action with barrel bedding blocked rifle

R

rooshooter

New member
I am getting a barrel bedding blocked rifle made up and was hoping to put my Rem 700 action on the back. Now I know the Rem 700 action is not ridgid enough to use with big long barrels without a bedding block, but how does it stack up hanging off the back of a barrel block, just supporting a scope? It has been faced and bolt sleeved, Tubb firing pin and spring. Is there any advantage to an expensive custom action in this instance? I was hoping the light weight of the Rem action would be OK.
 
As with everything, it depends on the purpose of the rifle. Consider that most short-range unlimited rifles are barrel blocked. You don't find any Remington actions on rail guns. Cycling speed might be one factor, but anything that could take away even a few thousandths from group size at 100 and 200 yards is not used.

This isn't to say the 700 has proven to be less accurate, but rail guns cost considerable money. The difference between a custom and a trued Remington is insignificant in terms of total cost. So Remingtons aren't used, and there isn't any data on whether or not they affect accuracy -- or speed, for that matter.

Thinking on it, Dave Tooley has a rail that uses an XP-100 action. He doesn't shoot much short-range BR anymore, but when he drags out that rail, he's always pretty dangerous. He built Jeff Summers one as well. I think Jeff's action was also sleeved. I don't know if Jeff still uses it, but if he does, I'm sure he doesn't think he's giving anything up.

Many match winning 1,000 yard benchrest rifles use trued Remingtons with a barrel block. At long range, a couple thousandths (theoretical) in group size is not an issue. I'd say the number of worked over, barrel blocked Remingtons and the number of custom actions is about the same. So too are the winning percentages.

I'd expect the number of custom actions in 1K BR to increase in the years to come, and the percentage of wins will shift to the column of using a custom action. What's interesting is just what that data will prove.
 
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I use an xp-100 action on a rail gun. This is of course with a barrel block.
Fired at leisure, it produces excellent accuracy. This is not the name
of the game however. Rail guns can be component testers, and I
use mine for that. Theyre real reason for existing is competition.
Custom actions can be had in any configuration you want.
They are configured to feed and eject fast. That relates to
better groups in competition. My XP-100 with ejector will
not match a dual port, and as such , is not favorable. After
spending big money on the rail system, why handicap yourself
with a slow system.
 
The rifle will be for long range F class up to 1200 yds, shooting either a 284 or 7mm SAUM. As I have to wait for the target to be pulled down and put back up again, speed isnt quite as critical, but I certainly wouldnt mind a left (or dual) port, right bolt custom action. Problem is, with the way the ozzie dollar is, I would have to sell all my kids remaining organs to buy one, whereas with a remington I would only have to sell one kidney from my youngest child. As she has a spare, this Isnt a problem.
I might look into a Barnard action which will at least have good extraction and strength.
 
I sounds like you would be happier with a custom action. Given your purpose for the rifle, that would be the only reason you need one.

Here's hoping you enjoy it, whatever you decide.
 
I have a trued up 700 that I've called 'Big Red', I had this rifle built about '94. It has the old McMillan full length Benchrest stock and I've spent beaucoup on this rifle through the years. I've had 7 different barrels on it in .243AI, 6BR or 6X47 ranging from Krieger to Hart to Shilen. It's ALWAYS been a teaser. I've rebedded it, I even bedded it into another stock. It's a test mule, an experimental/load workup/fireforming platform.

It's NEVER shot quite "crisp"......... In 6BR using 68gr Match bullets it'll drill holes but that's about it.

I haven't sleeved it because I'm SICK of it and don't believe it'll ever shoot. Right now it's got a nearly new 6BR barrel on it, quite a fatty at .980 muzzle and 29" long. This barrel doesn't have 275 rds thru it. (BTW, I've taken several barrels off of this rifle which turned out to be shooters on other guns.

I'm gonna' barrel block it. I've never owned a barrel block. I'm gonna' barrel block it into the McMillan BR stock AND bed it into an aluminum block that will mount on a railgun type base and weight it all to hunner't pounds..........

IF IT SHOOTS then I'll believe that an action has little effect.

Meantime, 'WAYYYY too many people I know have lit up their rails by changing out the action.

Mental???

dunno.

gonna' mess wit' it......

:cool:


al
 
So, Al, have you always had the same bolt with the 700 that performs mysteriously? I'm betting yes. (A very small bet. Times are hard.) Has the bolt, esp. the striker assembly, been worked over by the likes of Tooley or Borden? An equally miniscule bet says no. There is a message here . . .
 
Charles E said:
So, Al, have you always had the same bolt with the 700 that performs mysteriously? I'm betting yes. (A very small bet. Times are hard.) Has the bolt, esp. the striker assembly, been worked over by the likes of Tooley or Borden? An equally miniscule bet says no. There is a message here . . .
Click to expand...


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Well, y'SEEE Charles......... I'm shooting this thing against Bordens. And NO the firing assy has not been worked. It is timed but that's it.

You so steenking perceptive.....I've seen two of these that responded right righteous to 'ZACKLY what you're saying.... you WIN your small bet :)

I owe you a small chocolate latte from the non-Starbucks store of your choice.

LOL

al
 
Al,
Why are you messing with a barrel block without first fixing the bolt? Bush it ;bush the firing tip so that it stays in the hole full stroke;tighten up the shroud threads;shim the flats on the bottom of the shroud to minimize tilt, then shoot it before you block it. You may skip the block. IMHO the block won't make errant vibrations generated in the bolt to go away. Keep us posted on your results, what ever you decide to do.
Boyd
 
Boyd Allen said:
Al,
Why are you messing with a barrel block without first fixing the bolt? Bush it ;bush the firing tip so that it stays in the hole full stroke;tighten up the shroud threads;shim the flats on the bottom of the shroud to minimize tilt, then shoot it before you block it. You may skip the block. IMHO the block won't make errant vibrations generated in the bolt to go away. Keep us posted on your results, what ever you decide to do.
Boyd
Click to expand...

Boyd,

We've talked about this one before..... ;) You are aware of some of the experiments Big Red has been subject of. Some quite intriguing, others not so interesting.

You're right, but I'm trying to learn something here.

I still have the old stock. I'm not planning on the barrel block wrecking it.

I still have the NEW stock......

And James Pappas lined me up with a really cool sliding test unit which functions similar to a rail.

I've never worked with a block.

I've just got a whole BUNCH of directions to scatter off in all at once! You know me......

Nawwww...... I've got a 12-14yr baseline with this old platform and notes going clear back. Some really exciting spells when I thought I had 'er figgered out....... She's gone through stretches of shooting like a house afire...and I've given up on her more than once. This last time I had it up and going I took it to a match. And proceeded to get CREAMED....it just didn't shoot as well as it did at home.

Basically I've just decided to give the mule a few years reprieve whilst I try to get rid of the flyers. In this case, learning is taking precedence over short-term shooting goals. (My BAT is in the mail to Borden's as we speak and a couple of barrels to be fitted for tuners....and another/better 6X47 barrel..... so I will not be short of shootin' irons...)

HUMOR me :):)

If I can make this old mule repeatable I'll have made some real progress.


To any and all who read this and want pain-free SHOOTING......listen to Charles, LISSEN to Boyd ..... and have Tooley or Borden or Bryant or someone do you right. Do NOT follow my path of iniquity. The rewards are small and the cost is high :eek:

LOL


al


But anyways...... I plan on trying a barrel block ON A KNOWN PROBLEM ACTION......

THEN I can fix the action.
 
Well Ive gone both ways now. I have just bought a Barnard action to use as my 1000yd and fly shoot gun. I will use my Rem 700 action for my F class rifle. I will get the Remington looked over to see if it needs any work, but the bolt has already been sleeved and a tubb firing pin/spring fitted, face squared. I will see if the pin bore needs bushing.
 
Hey, Al (he said, hijacking the thread), as long as this is experimental & you're looking at fliers, think on this.

There are fliers that happen, say, one or two times in ten shots. Then there are the fliers that happen one time in, say, 20 shots. When due to mechanical problems, these can have different causes.

Remember the Vaughn chapter on action threads? So, when you have your block built, have it made so you can put a bar on top, so as to be able to cantilever the scope back over the action. Put the scope bases on the bar. With this setup, where ever the barrel is pointing vis a vis the action, the scope is pointed in the same direction as the barrel. Addresses the one-in-twenty type flyers.
 
Charles E said:
Hey, Al (he said, hijacking the thread), as long as this is experimental & you're looking at fliers, think on this.

There are fliers that happen, say, one or two times in ten shots. Then there are the fliers that happen one time in, say, 20 shots. When due to mechanical problems, these can have different causes.

Remember the Vaughn chapter on action threads? So, when you have your block built, have it made so you can put a bar on top, so as to be able to cantilever the scope back over the action. Put the scope bases on the bar. With this setup, where ever the barrel is pointing vis a vis the action, the scope is pointed in the same direction as the barrel. Addresses the one-in-twenty type flyers.
Click to expand...


Good call.

My barrel block is going to be rude, crude and unusual...... I'm going to use a hunk of PIPE that I can weld to top, bottom and sides. The barrel will be accra-glassed into the pipe so that there's no chance of bore compression.

I also want to be able to play with offset........ and mounting above/below center of sliding movement.

Of course if I find something that works I'll build one perrty........... or at least paint the pipe :D

al


BTW, as a mental exercise it's interesting to assemble a really flexible rifle in your head, like a "rubber rifle" and then picture shaking the end of the barrel and visualizing the shake back to the CENTER where the conventional action is bolted to the stock and both ways to the ENDS of the stock where the bags are.......... it's amazing they repeat A'tall...

I'm at a point where I think that the action/mag box area of the conventional stock design could often use some stiffening.
 
I might read up on the mounting the scope on the block theory in Harold vaughns book, Good tips. It is the one in 10 or 1 in 20 which can be a pain to diagnose.
 
Boyd,

I'm kinda new here. Can you describe how to "shim" the shroud?

Thanks,

Bruce
 
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