How far with the .223

R

rdsii64

Guest
From what I have been able to read on my own, the typical F T/R match can be shot at up to 1000 yards. Since the .223 round really isn't going to do very well at those kinds of ranges, How far do the competitors who campaign a .223 rifle typically shoot?
 
223 at 1000 yards

A 223 will shoot a 1000 yards. Even bolt guns loaded with 80 grainers loaded to the max get their buts kicked around by the wind. Lighter bullets tend to go subsonic before getting to the target. If you are going to shoot F-TR I would advise a long barreled 308 with 180gr Bergers.

Rustystud
 
rdsii64 said:
Since the .223 round really isn't going to do very well at those kinds of ranges, How far do the competitors who campaign a .223 rifle typically shoot?
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Horsepucky.

I've shot .223s at 1000 yards, and beaten others. I've been beaten at 1000 yards by .223 shooters before. You have to drive the .223 bullets harder (faster) than a .308, but it can be done - and done safely.
 
This last weekend, I saw a .223 using 80 grain Amaxes shot out to 1200 yards. When the wind was up, it shot diabolically; when the wind was kinder, he won a range.

The again, some guys like pain....
 
I have shot my 223 bolt gun at 1000 yds. but calling the wind was a lot tougher then using my 260. On a calm day with easy conditions I can hold my own against 308s at 1000 yds. The shooter's skill is more of a factor then my rifles bullet limitations. At 300-600yds I prefere my 223. Cheaper, very accurate, and I have better follow-thru and trigger control I believe because of the lighter recoil.
 
I'll second that SooStan, I shot my big boomer in the Match with Tom yesterday and I can't hold that .308 to .5 moa like the .223. Tom won F/TR with his .223, I'll post the scores later.
 
I have a .223 that I am planning on running alot in F-T/R. I questioned the supressor on the rifle, I think they said it may be considered. The military is using them now and I think for saving the blast, noise and hearing it should be. I'm running 75 A-maxs and I have to say she is a hummer.

IMG_6944.jpg


Bring on the spring : )

JamieD
http://www.wolfprecision.net
http://AllHogsGoToHeaven.com
 
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That is sweet looking....but the supressor would never make it past an NRA tech/jury at weigh in, you could shoot the Match but the scores wouldn't count toward awards or Classification.

Check the NRA Rule Book (you should have read it by now if you are going to compete)
down load the link, it's in pdf....then you can sit and read it waiting for spring.

I know the link is already on here in at least 10 posts, but here it goes again:

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf



Section 3-EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION reads as this:

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An
extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be considered a “muzzle brake”. The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater and may have 1/4” x 1” slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along the top of this tube for the installation of sight bases will be allowed.

(a) Sound suppressors are not authorized for use in high power competition.

I know, your thinking I'm not shooting High Power......but yes you are, F-Class is an extention of it and Rules are Rules.
 

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.223 and the 1,000 yard span

I have been out shot at a Palma match by the USMC team using thier M16's and had my but kicked in Canada by a guy shooting a .223 10 years ago. It can be done, however it appears that it requires extreme in precision as far as ammo and gun (my take).
.223 is popular in Australia but I believe they are still shooting a V bull target which is a little more forgiving that our current F class target.
 
Taildrag15X said:
That is sweet looking....but the supressor would never make it past an NRA tech/jury at weigh in, you could shoot the Match but the scores wouldn't count toward awards or Classification.

Check the NRA Rule Book (you should have read it by now if you are going to compete)
down load the link, it's in pdf....then you can sit and read it waiting for spring.

I know the link is already on here in at least 10 posts, but here it goes again:

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf



Section 3-EQUIPMENT AND AMMUNITION reads as this:

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An
extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be considered a “muzzle brake”. The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater and may have 1/4” x 1” slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along the top of this tube for the installation of sight bases will be allowed.

(a) Sound suppressors are not authorized for use in high power competition.

I know, your thinking I'm not shooting High Power......but yes you are, F-Class is an extention of it and Rules are Rules.
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I think this rule needs re-addressed. The High power was to stay true to military and the equipment they are running. Well, although they are not running muzzle brakes (outside of 50BMG's) they are running suppressors and it will soon be expanded big time. I understand not wanting to shoot next to a brake exspecially while on the ground (blast and debris) but a suppressor cuts the noise on the range and saves hearing.

Is there someone this issue can be brought up to?

Thanks,
JamieD
 
I quess your going to want Full Auto or 3 round burst also, not everyone is a Class III.

Not every State allows a can, so IMHO it's not a good idea in High Power, let the Tactical Matches use the Special Sniper Stuff.......where it's legal of course.
 
JamieD said:
but a suppressor cuts the noise on the range and saves hearing.
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It also makes one hell of a brake, which is why most people who ask about them want to to use one... the 'noise' issue is secondary and sounds good (pardon the pun), but IME 99% of the folks are trying to game the rule that says 'no brakes or compensators'.

Is there someone this issue can be brought up to?
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Not anybody you're going to get any traction with. This has been beat to death, buried, dug back up, tarred, feathered, drawn-n-quartered, and burned until not even ashes remained over the last 2-3 years. The words specifically prohibiting suppressors just got added last year, because some people tried playing fast-n-loose with their interpretation of the rules so the NRA had to spell it out for them explicitly. You can always submit to the NRA HP Committee for (re)consideration, but I think your odds of reversal this soon would be slim to none.

Pardon me for asking... but I gather you haven't actually *shot* any F-Class yet?
 
No, not yet. This will be the first year and I am pretty exited. I have shot in a good many matches but no F-T/R. I agree it could skirt the rules and act like a brake - but in my case it's a .223 and weights about 16.5 pounds. It doesn't need one.

As far as suppressors, most of those against one have never shot one. It is the best tool or accesory I have purchased in many, many years. I only wish I had seen one earlier. Lets face it, Fourteen years of military and law enforcement as well as 25 years of shooting and my hearing has suffered. They also keep the ranges quiter when in use (#1 complaint - noise!) So why not consider it?

JamieD
 
Because they function as a brake, intentional or not... which can confer a competitive advantage to people with them - and they are not legal for ownership or use in all states, which further unlevels the playing field. While I do agree that the noise benefits are considerable, until you find a way to handle those other two issues, I don't think its going anywhere

About the bit about people against suppressors... my response is that most of the people who think we need to change our rules to suit their way of thinking have never shot the sport as is. I have shot suppressed rifles, and I know very well how much they reduce recoil. Until that advantage is available to all across the board... it'll be a very tough sell.

Monte
 
Agree and I see your point. I don't know the stats on the states where they are legal. I should contact the NRA, they should know. It's a shame that they have been made out to be something evil or bad in the public eye. I take it to shows and you would not believe the amount of people who do not know they are legal to own let alone the benifits of owning one.

This country really makes big deals in stigmatizing things especialy when relating to guns. A friend of mine from Britain says they can be purchased over there out of the local hardware stores and it's actualy condidered rude to shoot without one.

Again, I do understand your reasoning. That said why should I have to shoot and comply to California's laws. I don't live there and sorry about the luck of those who do : ) What happens when California decides that you have to shoot lead free bullets only in there state - Does that mean I have to shoot lead free here becouse you are not allowed?



JamieD
 
If it were just one state... I'd probably agree with you, but its not. I guess there in lies the difference. It's subtle, and highly subjective, but thats the way I see it.

At any rate, good luck with your .223. I keep meaning to get one put together as a 'no-holds-barred' F/TR rifle, but between one thing and another... and I've got .308s coming out my ears it seems ;) My wife had one that I wrenched together (Savage) that at 600yds and in, I wouldn't have put money against her shooting it... and she doesn't practice very much. @ 1k it was a little shakey, but that was more of a function of the chamber and barrel not really being optimal for the bullets necessary for that kind of distance (only 24" long with a *very* short throat).

Good luck,

Monte
 
Hijacked thread!

Intersting how the thread changed from shooting a 223 Rem at up to 1000 yards to the NRA stance on suppressors.


Yesterday I won our local 1000 yard F/TR class with a 223 in 10-15 mph quartering headwinds . Really a misleading statement as the other competitors were newby's but they were shooting 308 and 30-06 rifles.

I am currently shooting a 75 gr Berger VLD with a BC of .447. Remember that the BC and velocity of the cartridge/bullet is the key here not bullet weight.

:)
George
 
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