A
andyd1179
Guest
Hi Fred,
since you know what shooters are up against in going to top events how do you see what can be done to help bring down the cost of running such events, do you think that there is a way raise funds from the actual shooting of competitions could help towards this.
AndyD
since you know what shooters are up against in going to top events how do you see what can be done to help bring down the cost of running such events, do you think that there is a way raise funds from the actual shooting of competitions could help towards this.
AndyD
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B. Harvey
Guest
Hard enough to get shooters here, shooting the SAME organization, to correspond with each other club wise, to get the numbers up at matches.
Example-
Two match directors within 3 hours cannot get together on the schedule for the year, for each to support the other, so at each match the turnout is low for both clubs. See the problem?
The other problem is that there are HUNDREDS of club matches and at least 15 Nationals a year. Look at the big national centerfire matches like the Super Shoot and Camp perry that only happen once a year, with a big turnout.
Example-
Two match directors within 3 hours cannot get together on the schedule for the year, for each to support the other, so at each match the turnout is low for both clubs. See the problem?
The other problem is that there are HUNDREDS of club matches and at least 15 Nationals a year. Look at the big national centerfire matches like the Super Shoot and Camp perry that only happen once a year, with a big turnout.
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Peter Armstrong
Guest
Tony,
It would be the WRABF committee who would decide. http://wrabf.com/
But this is not the first time a line has been drawn in the sand on this issue, so who knows.
Each country can have three 3 man teams in each match, but a country can have a maximum of 15 shooters in each match. The other 6 shoot as individuals, but some will tell you the 6 are still part of the team, I was there and still don’t understand that bit.
Peter
K
Keith23
Guest
Peter
Thanks for trying to explain it. I'm sure it is far to complicated for me to understand.
I think I'm on the side of this being an individual sport. It just seems if it is a team thing, all teams should have the same number of members.
As close as these matches normally are, I would think 15 guys would have a better chance of shooting a better score than three. Same applies if it is three teams against one team.
This may be akin to my World Champion Matches I hold in my driveway nearly everyday. They are open to all that want to shoot.
Just so happens that I am the current World Champion. Of course that may change tomorrow, when I hold the next match.
Thanks for trying to explain it. I'm sure it is far to complicated for me to understand.
I think I'm on the side of this being an individual sport. It just seems if it is a team thing, all teams should have the same number of members.
As close as these matches normally are, I would think 15 guys would have a better chance of shooting a better score than three. Same applies if it is three teams against one team.
This may be akin to my World Champion Matches I hold in my driveway nearly everyday. They are open to all that want to shoot.
Just so happens that I am the current World Champion. Of course that may change tomorrow, when I hold the next match.
C
Carp
Guest
B. Harvey, you hit it right on the nose......too many nationals. I think they were discussing the RBA indoor nats recently and I was confused myself even after the posts. Was it the actual nats or a partial upon partial nats? Have one indoor nationals and one outdoor that is too much anyway but just do it and not have a sporter national, combo national and unlimited national at separate events indoors and outdoors. It definately dilutes the outcome. Yes it sucks to have to stay two days and shoot some 3, 4, 5 relays but it's the ONLY National Indoor or Outdoor Tournaments for each organization. My 2 cents.
John M. Carper
John M. Carper
B
B. Harvey
Guest
RBA- Sporter, Combo, 3-Gun, Unlimited, Indoor and Outdoor (yards and meters)?
IR5050- 3-gun, Unlimited, Indoor and Outdoor (yards and meters)?
ARA- 2 Nationals, 1 indoor and 1 outdoor (Good)
PSL- Only five matches anyway, all nationals.
(+ the hundreds of club matches)
Why the need to shoot yards and meters? Creates a longer match, more ammo needed, 2 days, not to mention hotel for another night.
Why does the requirement exist to shoot so many targets? Does it really take that many targets to determine a winner?
On outdoor shoots, you could shoot 1-3 targets, but have a 45-60 minute relay, or long enough for a condition to actually return that you can shoot.
Can't tell you how many times my preferred condition lasted long enough to shoot 2 rows, then waited 10-15 minutes for it to return, and never did, so I was left to flounder the remaining 3 rows.
Too many choices, a good and bad thing.
IR5050- 3-gun, Unlimited, Indoor and Outdoor (yards and meters)?
ARA- 2 Nationals, 1 indoor and 1 outdoor (Good)
PSL- Only five matches anyway, all nationals.
(+ the hundreds of club matches)
Why the need to shoot yards and meters? Creates a longer match, more ammo needed, 2 days, not to mention hotel for another night.
Why does the requirement exist to shoot so many targets? Does it really take that many targets to determine a winner?
On outdoor shoots, you could shoot 1-3 targets, but have a 45-60 minute relay, or long enough for a condition to actually return that you can shoot.
Can't tell you how many times my preferred condition lasted long enough to shoot 2 rows, then waited 10-15 minutes for it to return, and never did, so I was left to flounder the remaining 3 rows.
Too many choices, a good and bad thing.
D
Don Stith
Guest
Some of us just like to shoot. More targets equals more fun. The target or scoring method is not important. I don't enjoy travelling so that limits my participation. I vote for shorter times for a relay. You just have to identify more than one condition and keep shooting.
As far as the "worlds" goes, my distaste for travel makes that a non-starter. If it is going to take place in the USA, someone has to publicize the qualification process and make us aware of any rules that are inconsistent with the organization rules most of us are familiar with. Best I know, two of the three that represented the US in the Italy version of the worlds have given up 22 benchrest completely.
How do we get this thing off of 'stopped'
Don
As far as the "worlds" goes, my distaste for travel makes that a non-starter. If it is going to take place in the USA, someone has to publicize the qualification process and make us aware of any rules that are inconsistent with the organization rules most of us are familiar with. Best I know, two of the three that represented the US in the Italy version of the worlds have given up 22 benchrest completely.
How do we get this thing off of 'stopped'
Don
Bill Collaros
Shoot to Thrill
Hi Don,
Qualifying for the WRABF World Championships is done by each country how they see fit. In Australia for example it is based on 2 highest scores aggregrate from RBA Nationals in 2008, 2009 & 2010.As you are allowed different competitors for each event, Air Rifle Team will come from results of this years Nationals in the Air Rilfe events. WRABF rules & events are clearly shown in the rule book on wrabf.com. There is only ONE member body from each country & in the USA it is RBA, so your qualifying would come through that body some how, you will need to check with them. As Peter said in an earlier post your contact would be Craig Young. I will be posting the date & venue for 2011 World Championships in the next day or two.
Best Regards
Bill Collaros
RBA President
Qualifying for the WRABF World Championships is done by each country how they see fit. In Australia for example it is based on 2 highest scores aggregrate from RBA Nationals in 2008, 2009 & 2010.As you are allowed different competitors for each event, Air Rifle Team will come from results of this years Nationals in the Air Rilfe events. WRABF rules & events are clearly shown in the rule book on wrabf.com. There is only ONE member body from each country & in the USA it is RBA, so your qualifying would come through that body some how, you will need to check with them. As Peter said in an earlier post your contact would be Craig Young. I will be posting the date & venue for 2011 World Championships in the next day or two.
Best Regards
Bill Collaros
RBA President
T
turmite
Guest
Hi Don,
I reeeeeeallly think it boils down to two things.
1. The cost to compete has simply got out of reach of most people.
2. Losing constantly isn't really fun!
I don't know about you, but back when I competed, I did so mostly for the fun, fellowship and food!
Well, actually I used most of the shooting I did as a test bed for new designs.I still have new designs in my head that I have never created but want to try fore I pass on!
Mike
P
Picher
Guest
The sport will probably not grow, but is probably on a downhill slide to oblivion.
If someone wanted to destroy rimfire benchrest, he'd have proposed different targets, rules, weight classes, no classes, and created several organizations to administer the various disciplines. Gee, isn't that what we have now???? It kind of reminds me of the various religions and subgroups of them in the world. Not many seem to be flourishing these days either.
As a business, we'd be a flop. Each discipline is too small, too widely scattered.
If I could recommend a first step to creating a unified rimfire benchrest organization, I'd start with settling on one target, maybe a new one, with uniform scoring that's relatively easy to do, and which rewards a shooter for getting the best edge in the middle of the target (the half-full glass opposed to the half-empty one).
After the target is selected or created, we could work on various equipment rules, keeping the Unlimited and various weight categories, but work toward a unified organization with regional representation.
The problem is that not many people see a problem with what we have and if they do, don't want to be bothered to change it.
I'm willing to work with anyone to grow the sport, but am in Maine and at the end of the rimfire benchrest "food chain".
If someone wanted to destroy rimfire benchrest, he'd have proposed different targets, rules, weight classes, no classes, and created several organizations to administer the various disciplines. Gee, isn't that what we have now???? It kind of reminds me of the various religions and subgroups of them in the world. Not many seem to be flourishing these days either.
As a business, we'd be a flop. Each discipline is too small, too widely scattered.
If I could recommend a first step to creating a unified rimfire benchrest organization, I'd start with settling on one target, maybe a new one, with uniform scoring that's relatively easy to do, and which rewards a shooter for getting the best edge in the middle of the target (the half-full glass opposed to the half-empty one).
After the target is selected or created, we could work on various equipment rules, keeping the Unlimited and various weight categories, but work toward a unified organization with regional representation.
The problem is that not many people see a problem with what we have and if they do, don't want to be bothered to change it.
I'm willing to work with anyone to grow the sport, but am in Maine and at the end of the rimfire benchrest "food chain".
Bill Collaros
Shoot to Thrill
Picher, that is exactly what the wrabf is trying to do, we have managed after 2 years of debate to get a target & set of rules that many associations from all over the world can work with & are now happy to use, we also run a World Championship & European Championship every 4 years, in addition we take part in the World Rimfire postal every year & run the air rilfle world postal also. We encourage juniors & new countries to join the sport, we cant do much more than that & hope people start to embrace it rather than play political games to suit themselves, have a look at www.wrabf.com
World Championship 2011 news will be out tomorrow;
Bill Collaros
WRABF President
wrabf.com
World Championship 2011 news will be out tomorrow;
Bill Collaros
WRABF President
wrabf.com
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Tom C.
Guest
why not have a benchrest central world series match, shoot one target from
each discipline, winner of a target gets 5 points, 2nd gets 4 and so on. shoot
unlimited guns that are legal in all. highest points is the best shooter able
to adapt to different targets. open to all. when the one fellow with his own
range invited what some thought were the best shooters i think some felt
slighted they weren't invited, in fact i know a few that did. this is the only
place i know of where all the different types get together. just a thought.
each discipline, winner of a target gets 5 points, 2nd gets 4 and so on. shoot
unlimited guns that are legal in all. highest points is the best shooter able
to adapt to different targets. open to all. when the one fellow with his own
range invited what some thought were the best shooters i think some felt
slighted they weren't invited, in fact i know a few that did. this is the only
place i know of where all the different types get together. just a thought.
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Bill Collaros
Shoot to Thrill
I am happy to officially announce the 2011 World Rimfire & Air Rifle Benchrest Federation Championships have been set.
They will be held at the Palmetto Gun Club, Charleston, South Carolina, USA.
More information & exact dates (in July - August) will be forthcoming on our WRABF website.
Any enquiries should be emailed to either president@wrabf.com or secretary@wrabf.com.
Kind Regards,
Bill Collaros
President WRABF
www.wrabf.com
They will be held at the Palmetto Gun Club, Charleston, South Carolina, USA.
More information & exact dates (in July - August) will be forthcoming on our WRABF website.
Any enquiries should be emailed to either president@wrabf.com or secretary@wrabf.com.
Kind Regards,
Bill Collaros
President WRABF
www.wrabf.com
B
Big Shurl
Guest
I shoot Eley match because that's what I can barely afford. It's too expensive. If I thought I could be competitive with club or if I could get my hands on some team to try, I would give it a go to see if my gun would shoot it. There's talk that the sport is suffering because of the cost to compete. So here's my idea to advance the sport maybe bad ones I don't know.
1. Shooters under 18 shoot free or maybe a dollar per target.
2. Shooters under 25 shoot at a discount.
3. Require that ammo be purchased for less than 6.00 per 50. I believe that if there was a rule for price on ammo Eley match black would be 5.99 a box within months or shooters will find something that's competitive. Nothing is more discouraging than trying to make your gun shoot Eley club sitting next to a guy shooting 15.00 a box tennex.
Good or bad those are some ideas.
1. Shooters under 18 shoot free or maybe a dollar per target.
2. Shooters under 25 shoot at a discount.
3. Require that ammo be purchased for less than 6.00 per 50. I believe that if there was a rule for price on ammo Eley match black would be 5.99 a box within months or shooters will find something that's competitive. Nothing is more discouraging than trying to make your gun shoot Eley club sitting next to a guy shooting 15.00 a box tennex.
Good or bad those are some ideas.