How can we push our sport Forward?

A

andyd1179

Guest
Hya Guys,

With watching a number of Forums to do with Benchrest Shooting and the competitions that go on around the world it seems difficult to get associations to come together support Rimfire Benchrest shooting for the shooters that belong to them and take part in.

There are so many different classes now because the sport has grown but seems in some way it has almost out grown itself, that it’s difficult to put on large events to cover all the disciplines in one go. There are 4 major events in a 3 year period that shooters can take part in or can make the team for.

Nationals
European Championship
World Championship
World Postal

There are so many associations around the world that are involved in these competitions but all run different rules from local level, European level and World level. For the European and World level you have to make the team. The way it stands at the moment is that the World Championships follows the year after the European’s, financing for two events one after the other is almost impossible for the European shooters to do both as most shooters have to find the finance to pay go to such event and have to make hard decisions on which one to finance for means the team side of things suffer, this could also be said for other countries.

At present we have the ERABSF and the WRABF, from what I can see is that the WRABF has 15 nations that are part of it and all the European countries that are part of the organisation are also part of ERABSF. Getting sponsorship for the events is an almost impossible task, I know as I have been involved in this in the pass but how can we help the shooter get involved in high profile shooting and raise funds to put these major events on?

Well one idea that I have to put forward to the Benchrest community is that a number of postal events are run each year were shooters from any level can take part in and the entry fees are then put forward to these major events run by WRABF and ERABSF. To make it fare the ERABSF would have to make their European an open championship so as to be fare to all countries to take part.

There could be a postal event for each of the different disciplines held at a local club level i.e. unlimited, light varmit, hunter and so on for Rimfire and Air Rifle held on a certain date all around the world, obviously at weekends. It would have to be different dates for each of the disciplines and cover not just 50m but also 25yd.

If something like this was done then Benchrest shooting could be almost self supporting which would help each country that was to hold the major events each time and also bring the cost down of such an event. postal events are not complicated to run but can help drive the sport forward if those that were involved thought slightly outside the box.
If you charged say £15 entry fee ($24/€17) and had say 15,000 shooters from all over the world taking part in just one postal that would come to £225,000 a year and that is just one postal event ($363,552/€256,324)

This is just an idea; there may be others that could come up with some other idea to raise the profile of the sport around the world and to bring those associations together to think about the future of our great sport.

AndyD
 
Most US shooters would not include any of the events you list as the major events. On top of that, most don't have a lot of faith in postal events and would not pay extra to shoot in one. I think your number of shooters is vastly over stated. Your motives are good however and we all want to attend the big shoots. Another difference in concept is that US shooters concider it an individual sport. The whole idea of BR shooting being a team event doesn't fit with the way we shoot. JMO
 
Hi Don,
Since the USA is holding the next World Championship how that does that work if as you say shooters dont see it as a team event in the USA?
 
Andy,
Worth a try but you might have posted this in the wrong place. For a few in the US the world stops at the border and while the world champs might be on there next year, it seems to be a closed shop with no qualifying matches for US shooters. So why should they care about the WC.

Don,
I agree, for me too it is more of an individual sport. I’ve got a few team medals from world postals and world championships, but I don’t rate them as highly as my 4 national wins.

Peter
 
There will be three groups of guys that get together to shoot it and many other shooters will support it to make everyone feel welcome and make sure it goes smooth but one guy will win and the shooters in the US will know who won. How many competitive RF BR shooters do you have in England? How about Italy and the rest of Europe. SA and Australia? I don't mean prone and position shooters that will go to the bench to see how they compare but week in and week out RF BR shooters. It looks to me like a system like you propose would mean that the US would fund about 2/3rds of the next International shoot. And that's just factoring in the US RBA shooters. The largest shooting organization in the US doesn't even shoot weight class rules.
 
Don,

I have no idea how many BR shooters there are around the world, we only count the ones who come out and play at an international level.

There is a chance that the WC might not be in the US. It’s been 18 month since Italy and there is still no confirmed range or date and I’d say it’s at that use it or lose it stage.

Peter
 
Hya Guys,

If the negative view is like this for most and not open to new ideas then the world of all BR Shooters ever coming together again is then doomed, yes it is a individual sport but also a team sport, that is what the world postal has as well as the European and World championship has, as to the USA funding the whole sport I don’t think that would be fare to say as maybe the rest of the world has as many shooter to match them. This is about individual choice if they want to compete and world level more than just once a year in the world postal but using the funds to promote itself and help with cost of major event every ¾ years. As only two people have made comment from two different countries I don’t think this is a fare response and would like to see what others have to say.

As I said this is just an idea, but also can show were we all stand with the thought of the world shooting together.

AndyD
 
Andy, I'm not trying to be negative and, because it is not an unlimited game, I'm not involved anyway. It was just my opinion and I thought you might want to know what someone that is a non RBA shooter might think. I've just looked at what some of the "world" national championship results were and the participation was less than we have at most of our club shoots. How do you think the rules would be if every country held a years worth of shoots, made a list of all the shooters that shot 40 registered targets and all the shooters on those lists world wide got to vote on the rules.
 
with the majority of these posts, its the exact reason i just sold everyhing i invested in, have fun shooting with the 15 or 20 of you lol
 
Hya Don,

I don’t have all the answers but as to the rules there are plenty to choose from. I believe ERABSF have adopted the same rules as the WRABF which the USA has signed up to like the rest, as to the rules it could be simple or as complicated as you want it to be. The idea is that it’s an open competition so anyone from anywhere can shoot in it and doesn’t have to belong to an association. Understand the States have a lot of competitions but that is not any different from any other country, the idea is that all shooters from around the world could shoot against each other in a cheap and simple postal if the shooter is happy to take part and enjoys the competition what is wrong with that, but the money raised from it could help the bigger event that the whole world takes part in. It’s about choice with bounds by associations in what they can and can’t shoot in.

AndyD
 
Hya Nipper,

I am sorry that you are pulling out of the sport but I am sure that there are others that are contemplating this and if there is one reason for writing this post it shows were we are all at a cross roads and have to find a route that can make the sport worthwhile. For some that know I am involved in the magazine Target Shooter, we started this because there was no magazine for the Target Shooter and cover all types of target shooting even though my shooting is BR. Without new ideas and something to keep something alive and well, were will it go? These forums like others are a great instrument to share ideas and views, new shooters are dependent on matches or postal’s to learn from so that they make the leap to the larger matches, if they have something to build the confidence, but something needs to be in place to offer more than what there is at present in my view, but let’s have some ideas on how we can work forward to stead of backwards.
 
Andy

Most rimfire benchrest shooters here compete in we call ARA. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Very few rules, and open to everyone, including every kind of rifle/scope anyone can come up with. That's kinda how most of us like it.

There were over a 100 shooters at last years nationals. How does that compare with the other nationals? In say, the Uk, Au, It or SA? I ask this because I have no clue as to the size of the matches held outside the U.S.

I would like to shoot in a world match, especially, if the match is held some place I can afford to get to. But by the time I reworked my rifles to meet all the rules, and learned all the regs, I would probably change my mind.

Basically all I'm saying is make it open to everyone, and make it simple, or folks here will loose interest, maybe that has already happened.
 
Keith,

As for the world rules, the target, sporter and 10 1/2lbs are about the same as IR50 but HV is 15lbs.

At the world championships each country is allowed 15 shooter per match, there are six 3 target matches 2 for each class. But while most countries are in the process of running qualifying matches I think the US teams are only via invitation.

As for nationals numbers, most get on par with what you get at IR50 and RBA nationals in the US. But if you take the numbers of rimfire BR shooters in a country and divide it by that counties population you’ll find there are a few countries that it is more popular than in the US.

Peter
 
Peter

Thanks for the information.

I guess my next question should be to someone (???) over here. How is the USA team being picked?

Perhaps that question it premature. Especially, since it hasn't been decided where or when the match will be held. As you said, maybe it will not be over here after all. If it's not, I'm pretty sure that will limit interest among U.S. shooters.

If that happens, why don't you guys plan on coming to the ARA Nats in St. Louis, Mo. in September. You can shoot the PSL match on Friday, and the ARA Nats. on Saturday, and Sunday, no worries about your rifles. If you can get it on a bench, you can pretty much shoot it.
 
Tony

Thanks for the information.

I guess my next question should be to someone (???) over here. How is the USA team being picked?

Perhaps that question it premature. Especially, since it hasn't been decided where or when the match will be held. As you said, maybe it will not be over here after all. If it's not, I'm pretty sure that will limit interest among U.S. shooters.

If that happens, why don't you guys plan on coming to the ARA Nats in St. Louis, Mo. in September. You can shoot the PSL match on Friday, and the ARA Nats. on Saturday, and Sunday, no worries about your rifles. If you can get it on a bench, you can pretty much shoot it.

Craig Young is in charge of the World Championship Match to be held here in 2011.
 
James,

I’m told there will be an announcement on the 31th about where and when the 2011 world championships will be. But at this stage with nothing confirmed from the US the odds are it will be moved to another country.

Peter
 
Hya Guys,

Firstly I am sure that Craig will come up with something and it will be announce through the right channels.

Regarding the cost of travelling to major events like this is huge going from one country to another. The last World Championship most countries that took part had full teams, as for America only 3 fine shooters came to the event, so why was that as the information was out there for nearly a year before the event.

I understand there are a number of benchrest associations in the states and maybe there is a power struggle going I don’t know, just that the shooting fraternity is a funny one at times. The WRABF was formed from the first world championships which the USA is part of in some form and put forward to host the next one in 2011 and we are all waiting for details on this. The idea of having a world championship like other shooting sports must be of interest to the States otherwise why put forward to host such an event.

Something like this is good for the sport of benchrest but federations, association and shooters will have to work together so that this is to happen, who wants to be part of that is up to them, but if new shooters are to come along they need to see the money that they are spending on equipment is worthwhile.

As I started out on this thread it’s about raising funds for such events and to help keep the cost down and also have something that shooters from all levels can take part in a worldwide level, as I have said rules can be as simple or as complicated as you want.

A number of nations are able to hold good local events and from national team levels some even have government support like South Africa, how they manage to do this I don’t know but wouldn’t it be great if all countries had the same thing.

AndyD
 
Leave the Government out of it is my advice. !!!
The Gov can screw up a steel ball with a piece of cloth.
Fred K
 
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World Match

James,

So Craig is our point man. I'm sure he will get some info out ASAP.

Peter,

Who will decide to pull the match from the U.S.? Or are you thinking our side will ask for it to be somewhere else, since it is taking so long for us to get our act together?

Andy,

So how does this work? If there were only three on the U.S. team, shooting against teams with 15, did the three U.S. guys shoot five times each and use thier best targets for score. If not, it seems it would be a real handicap for a team to show up short manned.

Craig,

It is your turn to speak, please let us know the plan.

In the mean time everyone make plans to be in St. Louis in Sept.


Tony
 
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