Help with 07 V-133 powders

I have jugs of differant lots of 07 V-133 ( 149,195, 222 ) . I am hoping someone could shorten my learning curve with these lots with 65 thru 68gr bullets in a 6PPC. It seems to be hoter than the 04 I have been using for four years. Thanks for any info which will get me on the right track with less use of power and wear on my barrels.
Bob
 
Bob

By weight, it is no "faster" or "slower" than any other lot of 133. But, as with many different lots of 133, the density can vary. In other words, a certain volume will weigh a little more, or less, than another lot. I am talking about 1/2, maybe a tad more in extremes.

A while back, Gene Bukys and I gathered up as many as six different years of 133, from '94 through '03, and when shot by weight, they were all within the burn rate tolerance. We were shooting a flat 30.0 grns.

But, I gave up on the '07 because the load window seemed very narrow. But, others seem to like it fine. My biggest gripe is I could not get it to act like '03.

Vic Smith is shooting it now, and he likes it...........jackie
 
07 v v133

I am shooting 07 V V 133 and my 6PPC likes it and my 220 Beggs REALLY likes it! In fact, I think my 220 Beggs and the 133 have a thing going on ! :D

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
Bob,
my lot of 245-07 was about 40 fps faster( hotter)per weight than my last batch of 04(which I still wish I had). Problem is that it's not just velocity or weight, it's personality. My 07 would lure you into thinking that it was drilling then it would get stupid,I had to stay on top of it all the time,if any shot leaked out of the group the least little bit without flag verification,you better be adjusting your load or the next group was gonna kill you ! I have shot a lot of 133 and it all behaved beautifully but that 07 was nuts,I shot up 8lbs of it before I gave up and traded what was left. I would now rather shoot 8208,322 or 4198 until a more sensible lot of 133 comes around. That being said Jeffy Gaidos won a couple of two guns with the 07 maybe he will chime in. I also hear of some success with the 08.The new 8208 sounds promising as well.
I guess my point is---good luck with your 07,hope you get it shootin consistantly, but if you can't, don't take a beating trying to make it work,there are other powders available over the shelf that aren't so tempermental.
Joel
 
I made a load chart for my lot of '07 and got it to work fine. It was slightly quicker than my lot of '08 I've got now but slower than '99. All grouped fine so long as I was aware of the temp and what the sweet spot was that my barrel wanted.

As I recall, I won two 2-guns with that '07 lot of VV.
 
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GG,
How about you give us a more specific example of how one of your load charts might work, for example: sweet spot at 75 deg at 12noon( x amount of powder= y velocity fps),temp goes up to 85 deg at 2:00( what adjustments would you make and what results would you expect). Following morning 60 deg,etc. Are you trying to maintain a specific velocity throughout the day and thus stay in tune? If you weigh charges do you increase/ decrease weight to sustain a given velocity ? I throw charges with a Harrells measure, Brushingham uses a Chargemaster.
You seem convinced that your program works and I would like to try it.
Thanks,
Joel
 
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GG,
How about you give us a more specific example of how one of your load charts might work, for example: sweet spot at 75 deg at 12noon( x amount of powder= y velocity fps),temp goes up to 85 deg at 2:00( what adjustments would you make and what results would you expect). Following morning 60 deg,etc. Are you trying to maintain a specific velocity throughout the day and thus stay in tune? If you weigh charges do you increase/ decrease weight to sustain a given velocity ?
You seem convinced that your program works and I would like to try it.
Thanks,
Joel


I'll sure try to explain it as best I can Joel. It is really similar, if not exactly the same as the load tables that Jerry SHaeffer outlined in his articles he penned for precision shooting and were then compiled into the Benchrest SHooting Primer book only he graphed H322 and I graphed out N133.

So the process is quite simple once you have a chronograph, a thermometer, and a notebook. The only difficult part (and it's really not that hard) is to be able to set up everything in a place that will let you shoot uninterrupted all day long and that has large temp swings from morning to afternoon. Of course, you can have little temp swings and still conduct the testing but your graph (or chart) will only contain as much data as you have in temperature variation.

The charting process begins with setting up a 100 or 200 yard target (I think 200 yards will put the load under a little more of a magnifying glass but 100 yards still works fine), and then shooting several loads to find the most accurate at that particular time. Then it is just a matter of writing down what the velocity was of that best load and then "mapping" it as the day gets warmer. You will see that to maintain that velocity, a certain amount of powder will have to be taken out of the load whether it be weighed or just thrown for volume. I have found that for every 10-15 degrees of temperature increase, the charge must be reduced about .3 grains which is roughly 30 fps with my current lot of N133 (other lots vary). Therefore, you can make a grid with temp on one side and velocity on the other and draw a line where you sweet spot is just like Jerry's diagram. Or you can just remember a starting temp and calculate what the charge needs to be based on the factors.

Now this seems to work in 90% of the barrels I've loaded for. However, there have been several barrels I've seen that didn't need a certain velocity but rather, they wanted a certain amount of powder in the case. Perhaps this is another form of a "hummer" barrel because it sure makes loading easy! You just simply have to stuff "x" amount of powder in the case and use it all day everyday. If you get one of these, HOLD ONTO IT for the big matches!


And if you want to take your chrono session one step further, you can load up a load ladder in .3 grain increments and watch the standard deviations fluctuate. If your particular lot of powder had large deviations each side of the best shooting load, then you will have to monitor the temp swings very carefully. If your load "window" is wide (meaning the deviations stay low on each side of the most accurate load) then your gun will afford you a little more slack as far as tweeking the load as the day goes on. But, there will still come a point no matter how wide your window is that your gun simply will not shoot up to expectations anymore and the charge must be altered. And sometimes you might just get lucky. For whatever reason, with the bullets and brass and gun that I'm using right now, I can actually feel a difference in my bolt lift when I've gone over the accuracy point. I'm not talking about the "pressure is too much" point. It is still very mild as far as pressure is concernced but I can feel when I've got too much powder in the case for the load to be shooting accurately. When I feel this, I'm approaching 3300 fps and I know I've got to be down around 3240 for this barrel to shoot.

On a side note, velocity is proportional to pressure and there are ways to change pressure without adding powder. But you will never know what they are or how to manipulate them without a chronograph. So it becomes a very useful tool in my mind and you will never see me sneer at someone for putting up a chronograph.;)
 
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GG,
Thanks buddy, I was hoping that you would respond. I'll re-read your post about ten times then take it to the range for a workout. Right now though it's Brady to Moss and I can't miss that.
Joel
 
This past weekend I was shooting 07 133 and I've found it to be very predictable below 80 degrees. My rifle was in tune the entire weekend and temps varied from high 30s in the morning to 75 in the afternoon.

Below 50 degrees I shot 29.4 grains.
When it hit 50 degrees I dropped to 29.1
When it hit 60 degrees I dropped to 28.8
When it hit 70 degrees I dropped to 28.5

.2132 agg and won the heavy grand and two gun and placed second in light grand.

I'm just not sure what to do above 80 degrees. :confused:
 
08 or 09

Just wondering if theres newer lots, and if they are any good. Its time to buy new powder and I need a backup plan in case the 8208xbr falls through.
JCK
 
Just wondering if theres newer lots, and if they are any good. Its time to buy new powder and I need a backup plan in case the 8208xbr falls through.
JCK

I have been shooting the september 2008 lot this year and have really liked it. However, it is quite a bit bulkier than my lot of 2007. I have to go up three extra audible clicks on my Harrells thrower to get the same weight dispensed as the older stuff. And even then it shoots about 30 fps slower but I've shot more "zeros" with it than any other lot thus far.
 
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