Headspacing on Fireformed case?

R

rattletrap1970

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Hello, Quick question.
I have a Savage Model 12 BTCSS. I replaced the stock recoil lug with a heavier, ground version. Which of course required removing the barrel. Prior to this project I did the following:

1. Full length re-sized some .223 brass, loaded it and fired it in the rifle.
2. Then I neck turned the brass, prepped it in the usual fashion (trued primer pockets, case trimmed to -.020 of max length, chamfered inside and out, cleaned flash hole, etc, etc).

Now I have trued-up brass that was fire-formed to my rifle.

I used this brass to headspace the rifle when putting the barrel back on. I set it so when the bolt goes into battery there is a little tension (a drag if you will) as the bolt closes fully.

In terms of safety as well as accuracy, am I better off with this method or using a "Go-Gauge".

Oh, Happy Thanksgiving all.
 
Odds are your probably ok.

Their are a number of reasons why this could lead to problems which is why quality gauging is a better choice. I think that so long as you don't get carried away with your brass resizing and you ensure that the case head is actually up against the bolt face prior to pulling the trigger, you'll be in the clear and your rifle will work fine.

If you were to ever sell this rifle I personally would verify the gun's H/S with an actual gauge prior just to be safe.
 
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Rattletrap

The common sense answer would be, "of course it is safe, these cases fit your Rifle perfect".

The "PC" anser is, "no, you should always set the Rifles headspace with a proper set of headspace gages, so that in the event someone fired a round in the Rifle other than the ones you are using, nothing bad will happen".

This sort of thing crops up quite often, and is probably asked about on shooting Forums all over the net, as well as letters to the editors of magazines. Heck, check 10 different 6PPC's from ten different shooters, you can find all sorts of variations in the "headspace". But they all use fireformed cases for their individule chamber, so everything works.

The manner in which you did your project leaves me to believe that a set of go-nogo gages would still fit fine in your Rifle, as your fired cases do represent the originol chamber, minus a little shrink back from the natural occurrance that happens when a case is fired in a Rifle. If you full length size, be sure and double check the amount of "shoulder bump", as this is what controles the distance between the head of the case and the bolt face. (notice, I did not sat "headspace")

As always, a good dose of common sense goes a long way when dealing with any situation such as what is being discussed. ..........jackie
 
I'm assuming the drag you're getting when you close the bolt is from a stripped bolt (no pin/spring assy.) ?
 
How much thicker is the new recoil lug compared to the factory lug?
The thicker the recoil lug, the more brass that is left unsupported.

Hal
 
Just a thought. With a thicker recoil lug, would that leave more of the case at the base not in the chamber? Could you have case head separation?
Butch
 
1. Yes, a the ejector was removed from the bolt.

2. Well not actually as far as the recoil lug goes. the barrel on a Savage is threaded and there is a barrel lock nut (not a shoulder). So you can put the barrel back exactly where you started.

Well, I added the safety comment in there just so you would know it is actually a concern. The rifle shot well right out of the box. I was easily able to shoot 1" and slightly smaller groups at 200 yards. But it bugged me that the action was not pillar bedded properly or glass bedded at all.

So before I glass bedded it with Devcon 10110 I replaced the recoil lug with a better one and relieved around the glued-in pillars so they were actually doing something other than being a liner for screws.

I want to extract every little bit of accuracy this rifle is capable of. So, when I was putting the barrel back on it was my belief that if I used a completely prepped case that was actually fireformed to the rifle before removal of the barrel it would put the barrel back almost exactly where I started.

I suppose I was looking for an affirmation that this method would do that.
 
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how did this brass fit prior to replacing the lug ?

if it felt the same before and after, maybe ok.

did you measure how far back you pushed the shoulder of the brass when resizing ?

how did you set up your die....hopefully to size for your rifle and not to the manufactures instruction of touching the shell hilder.


mike in co
 
The brass was full length resized first.

Then it was fired in the rifle.

Then it was used as a gauge (which means it should have been "exactly" fit to the chamber).

With no ejector you can feel a slight "crush" or "drag" when you close the bolt. It closes snug but you don't have to muscle it.

I will try putting a strip of scotch tape on the base of the case and see if that makes it too difficult or impossible to close the bolt.
 
mike in co said:
did you measure how far back you pushed the shoulder of the brass when resizing ?
how did you set up your die....hopefully to size for your rifle and not to the manufactures instruction of touching the shell hilder.mike in co
Click to expand...

According to the desription, the fired brass was not resized before the barrel was screwed on. Now he can adjust the f.l. die to get the proper shoulder setback. -Al
 
Rattletrap, It has been my experience that if your case was undersize before you fired it in you rifle, it may still be undersize after you fire it. Cases with little or no body taper do not always fireform. You should check your brass with a RCBS case mic gage.

Don
 
i'll still go back to my question:
how did the brass fit/feel prior to replacing the lug ?

if it was the same before and after, maybe ok, if not...you do not know, and i would suggest measuring the shoulder length of your brass, checking with a headspace gauge.

i dont shoot any wimping loads in 223, but i have not had an issue with undersized fired brass comming out of my rifles.

mike in co
 
If when the brass was full length sized, the die was screwed down tight
on the shell holder as some do, you will have no further adjustment when
the brass begins to work harden and tighten up a bit. Neck sizing only
will eventually lead to snug cases at the expence of bolt lugs. The 222-223
case will tolerate this better than some cases, but is still not a good thing.
Headspacing with correct guages co-ordinates safety with some flexability
in sizing and good case life
 
rattletrap1970 said:
In terms of safety as well as accuracy, am I better off with this method or using a "Go-Gauge".
Click to expand...

As far as safety goes, you have basically set the headspace the same as it was previously. If it was safe then, this should be now.

Accuracy wise what you have done should work.

A better method to set headspace is to use a steel go gauge as it is an exact standard that is safe and can be duplicated at any time by anyone, anywhere with a steel go gauge.
 
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