Boyd, I wonder if your inserts size to the number stamped on them. I have a Vari-Base, which by the way is a great idea and of the quality one would expect from Harrell's, with .438, .439 and .440 inserts. My 6 PPC has a fired case base diameter of .4395. None of my inserts, including the .438, touch that dimension. My Redding "S" die will "touch" it by about .0002 but not enough to eliminate click after a few firings.
Harrells Vari-base die?
- Thread starter goodgrouper
- Start date
Boyd Allen
Active member
Reed,
The fly in your ointment is springback. (I think) This is particularly an issue as cases are increasingly work hardened and as the web diameter creeps outward in diameter, as it will if hot loads are the usual. Luckily, I have the .437 and .436 bushings, although I have never seen a case that I would use the latter on. Currently, I am using a .438, which gives me about.0005 in diameter reduction. I have another rifle that has a slightly larger chamber, that I plan on trying the .439 on as soon as it arrives. When you consider that each size would have to be a different die, these are bargains...don'cha think?
Boyd
The fly in your ointment is springback. (I think) This is particularly an issue as cases are increasingly work hardened and as the web diameter creeps outward in diameter, as it will if hot loads are the usual. Luckily, I have the .437 and .436 bushings, although I have never seen a case that I would use the latter on. Currently, I am using a .438, which gives me about.0005 in diameter reduction. I have another rifle that has a slightly larger chamber, that I plan on trying the .439 on as soon as it arrives. When you consider that each size would have to be a different die, these are bargains...don'cha think?
Boyd
I think the shaved shellholder is my next move, Boyd. I have even put a spacer between the base insert and die in my Vari-Base and cannot get it to size the base of my case. My fired cases measure .4402 (Starrett mic) and my Vari-Base has inserts for .438, .439 and .440. None of those inserts even touches the expansion ring of the case; a resized case measures exactly the same as the fired one. My Redding FL "S" die actually takes off .0001! Giving a size of .4401 which, believe it or not, is noticeable in reducing the click but doesn't eliminate it.
Shooters have endured bolt click for decades, especially 6 PPC shooters. But having a nice RB/LP/RE action to enhance quick shooting makes the click intolerable to me. And I am not ready to give up my pet load of N133 yet.
Yes, I think the Vari-Base die must have been ahead of the curve or something or it would still be in manufacture.
I tried to post this reply to your new post in the Vari-Base die, but the site won't let me reply to it.
Reed
Shooters have endured bolt click for decades, especially 6 PPC shooters. But having a nice RB/LP/RE action to enhance quick shooting makes the click intolerable to me. And I am not ready to give up my pet load of N133 yet.
Yes, I think the Vari-Base die must have been ahead of the curve or something or it would still be in manufacture.
I tried to post this reply to your new post in the Vari-Base die, but the site won't let me reply to it.
Reed
Boyd Allen
Active member
A little click story
Several years back, perhaps a decade or more, working on the theory that when there is a click, the case is too big, and/or the chamber too small, in an area that could not be reached by a die, I did an experiment.
I took a fired case that had a pronounced click, slipped a bullet in the neck for support, and chucked the neck up in my cordless drill. Laying the drill on its side, so that the off side of the rim was supported on the laminate desk top (old and well used) I held an inexpensive, coarse diamond lap on the case, so that the edge of the lap was over the extractor groove, and the cutting face was parallel to the CL of the case. With the drill on low speed, and the trigger barely pulled, I reduced the diameter of the part of the case immediately in front of the extractor groove by a couple of thousandths, and then smoothed up the cut with some 0000 steel wool. (Subsequent measurements have shown that this part of the case is part of the solid web.)
On my next trip to the range, I loaded up the case with charges designed to make it click, and fired it several times....no click. Although I did not verify it, I think that this fix would have made it through a match weekend. So there you have it, how to fix a click with the tools at hand. It works.
Several years back, perhaps a decade or more, working on the theory that when there is a click, the case is too big, and/or the chamber too small, in an area that could not be reached by a die, I did an experiment.
I took a fired case that had a pronounced click, slipped a bullet in the neck for support, and chucked the neck up in my cordless drill. Laying the drill on its side, so that the off side of the rim was supported on the laminate desk top (old and well used) I held an inexpensive, coarse diamond lap on the case, so that the edge of the lap was over the extractor groove, and the cutting face was parallel to the CL of the case. With the drill on low speed, and the trigger barely pulled, I reduced the diameter of the part of the case immediately in front of the extractor groove by a couple of thousandths, and then smoothed up the cut with some 0000 steel wool. (Subsequent measurements have shown that this part of the case is part of the solid web.)
On my next trip to the range, I loaded up the case with charges designed to make it click, and fired it several times....no click. Although I did not verify it, I think that this fix would have made it through a match weekend. So there you have it, how to fix a click with the tools at hand. It works.
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
Boyd, I have done the same, because I was FORCED TOO. But it would have been better, and the REAL solution, is to get the sizing right in the first place. By removing material from the case, you have bought at least a weekend of shooting. But the Click will come back, and pretty soon you will not have material to remove.
Final analysis, get a die that will size the shoulder area approx .001-.0015, the body the same, and the web at least .002; .0025 is NOT too much. These are ALL measured dimensions, with micrometers, NOT calipers. Calipers are good too maybe .002 + or -, nothing better in most hands.
Probably the best die maker today is Jim Carstensen. Send him 3 NEW fired cases and you will NEVER be dissatisfied
Or, by having the reamer ground a thou or two bigger in the area just ahead of the extractor groove.
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
Jim is still in business and making dies. He's easiest to get on his cell at 563 212-2984.
Butch Lambert
Active member
They scratched my brass too much. I gave mine away long ago. Bought a reamer that was .003 smaller at the base and .002 at the shoulder. Had it melonite treated. Nothing better.