Hall FP. Question

T

Team Windsor

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Good Day! I own an early Hall rf. action, # 63 to be specific .It's paired to a duel extractor standard breech stainless match barrel. All seems good, no ignition problems.I do however feel that the firing pin is really slamming that primer, Im sure that an accidental dry fire would dent the rim seat. My question......Does anyone know the length of "unsprung" pretrusion from bolt face? or is there a standard fp length for this Hall. This rifle was built by Mr. Bill Myers, So....I have absoluty no doubt that it was initionally done rite. just cant remember seeing a primer hit this hard. Thank's very much. Ed.
 
Give Alan Hall a call I'm sure he can answer your question plus some. He's one of the nice guys, although most are in this game.

Phone (205) 755-4094
 
Ed,
As far as damaging the barrel goes, tt doesn’t matter how hard it hits just as long as the firing pin tip is not sticking out the end. Just uncock the bolt and look to see if the firing pin is sticking out past the end of the bolt, if it is it will hit the barrel. If it’s a bit hard to tell with the naked eye just put something like an allen key on the end of the bolt and if rocks on the tip of the firing pin it’s a bit long. If the allen key doesn’t make contact with the firing pin and just sits flat on the end of the bolt, you are fine.

But if its hitting too hard you could have firing pin bounce and that is another story.

Peter
 
Thank you Peter, That's a Great place to start. Makes a lot of sense to me. Id like to avoid bothering Mr. Hall. Im a toolmaker by trade, and with that, somewhat a perfectionist, so things like this keep me awake at night. Ill give it a shot. Thanks again. Ed.
 
I have had a problem with my Hall in this regard. Mine, over the course of a year, peaned a burr into the chamber of my rifle. A friend helped me shorten the pin and I bought a tool to take the burr out. I think my pin is now .005 below the face of the bolt and it still has plenty of umph to lite the primers.
 
ED,
Make sure the firing pin is not out of the bolt face with the bolt cocked!
The tension of the firing pin does have a great deal ( ignition ) to do with how the gun shoots.
You can absoultly have too much firing spring tension.

That being said, the Hall spring has been good in the past. There are many folks who have added weight to the firing pin itself to add more mass. I do not think that I have ever heard of replacing the spring with a heavier one to try to improve ignition.

But then again what do I know.
Steve
 
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Pete & Steve: Thank you both very much. Steve, Hope your dog is recovering well, mine's off for a check up today @ 174lbs. and never happy about being handled,it's never pretty but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Fireing pin,.. as stated, never had an ignition issue. I guess it's no doubt as after your advice in inspection & measurment, The pin, in the bolt "uncocked" pertrudes .025" ! I bought this rifle used, Upon first fireing I noticed a rather heavy scratch along the length of the spent case. After chamber inspection, noticed a defined burr & dent at 12:00 on chamber face.With a diamond needle file I removed the burr,got smooth feeding, no more scratch & Damn good shooting. Went in for a trigger adj.(jewel) tested with a plastic snap cap and saw where the fp.pretty much cut through the plastic rim. Now Im worried. Im thinking this burr will be back. Since then put about a brick through it, to date, no case, or chamber damage, but now I know it's not rite. So I guess I must shorten the fp.and hope not to upset ignition. I supose Ill remove .010"-.015" to start. I wont take the complete .025" because with the dent, the extra length has somewhere to go. I think,...I hope.. Thank you all Very much for sharing you advice and expierance. Steve, seeya soon! Ed.
 
Ed,
The only time the longer firing pin will give you a problem is if you drop the hammer on a empty chamber. But if you reshape the tip to shorten the excess you will increase the distance the firing pin travels and .025 is enough to make it hit even harder.

Peter
 
Ed,
I think I may be mistaken. I ment to say COCKED... I got to run, I will post later today.
Sorry.
 
Fred J : Thank you. Yes Sir, Indeed that was the case, as mentioned I bought this rifle used, aparantly while for sale ( I can only assume ) someone just had to feel that trigger. I really didnt want to state fault or blame, You'll have that sort of thing. Never the less...Thanks to All of your help,& one individual who would more than likley remain unmentioned ( USA's Top Gunsmith, & The Sporter King himself ) I have her all ironed out and looking to score some X's This outdoor season! Again my most sincere thank's to all who replyed with their wisdom, knowlage & expierance. And Steve...........I knew what you meant Buddy. We goter! Thanx again. Ed Longo.
 
I am quite certain my rifle was never dry fired without a spent case or snap cap ( I bought the blue aluminum ones). I filed the burr out of the chamber once but it came back in two matches. I asked a knowledgable friend and he told me the pin should not protrude past the face of the bolt. I trimmed it back flush with the face the burr re-appeared. I bought a tool to take the burr out and a friend helped me trim the pin back to .005 shorter than the bolt face. I haven't had a problem since. Oh, My problem was failure to eject, which I have solved.
 
Hello Pete,& Thank you. I spoke with Alen Hall, "Great Guy!" told me that someone had messed with that bolt,(fp) With his help & advice, and that of GE Im sure im in good shape now, put apx. 200 rds down the tube just today, and for me........." All is right with the world" I also fashioned a weight extention / bloop tube for the existing Harrels tuner and just by fate tightened my group's by apx. .030" across the board. This is a 17 twist and it was about 65deg. today, so Im quite surprised. I may just shoot my first 250 before long. Thanx again Pete & all, for all of your help! Ed Longo.
 
Pete: Just a quick note on second thought. Alen Hall makes his bolts and fireing pins of A2 Tool steel, and hardens to apx. 52-54r most stainless match barrels run apx. in the mid to high 40's r so after the damage is done ( dent ) a slightly longer pin now has a place to go. And ofcourse the longer the pin the shorter the lock time. So for me, Ill deal with that at rebarreling next time. Alen Hall told me "ya cant fix what aint broke" and thats something Ive allways lived by aswell. Ed.
 
Team Windsor said:
And of course the longer the pin the shorter the lock time.
Click to expand...
What I believe (which doesn't make it correct...) Lock time's not terribly important shooting off the bench. Generally, for benchrest, I'd prefer a slightly heavier pin, a little more travel (even if that involves a bit of cock-on-close), and a little less spring tension, all in the interest of good ignition with minimal vibration from the lock system.

If I'm wrong, let me know. Can always stand to learn more.
 
The most important thing to remember, is to keep the FP free of all heavy oil and grease. Don't worry about how hard it hits, if it doesn't puncture the rim.
 
Charles: Thanks very much: Yes Sir, I agree, As a long time small bore "position shooter" I guess Ive got lock time on the brain. She's all straightened out now. Ill get used to the bench, getting old and decrepid, I dont have a choice, Im haveing a better time at rf benchrest than ever expected. Thanx again, your help and advice is most appreciated.
Fred J : Thank you..... oil & grease on my fp. Never happen! Thanx again! Ed.
 
Guys,
When cocked the firing pin on a Hall will torque a little and you’ll get a bit of rubbing at the back where it slides through the pusher part and it can cause some wear problems. I use a little low friction grease in that area and it helps a lot and this gun has won 5 nationals so its not hurting performance.

About 8 week ago I did have a problem with extracting, I contacted Allen and he was very helpful and I got the problem sorted. I put the bolt back together with some grease and attached is the first target I shot, as I said its not hurting performance.

Peter

PS I used factory select R50 on that target
IMG_0032.jpg
 
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