Gunsmith for a living

[B.Johnson]

Before and after I retired from my full time job I was a part time outboard engine mechanic, and did rifle work for myself. People often asked why I was'nt a gunsmith. I could work on a rifle for a week for X amount of dollars. I could work on an outboard, and make the same amount before lunch time.

 

[brian roberts]

Vern, if you want to be a..........................

gunsmith, find out if your local community college has a machinery program, lots of guys do that, and learn to run machinery and think about how YOU would do something that you've picked up to admire.

You might also think of learning to do programming for a machining center, since CNC is doing everything right now.; especially if you have a new gizmo guys want, or, you could farm it out.

But, another thing to think of is, after the feds, the state, the county, the city, and the township (if there's one) finishes being a PIYA, then they like to line up like buzzards, to take a piece OUT of it. And they get those jobs, because somebody gives them POWER, and because they don't want to work....and they don't care if you want to.

Its a JOB, to most gunsmiths, I mean, guys sit down at the range and think, "I'd love to do this ALL the time." But, when you become a good gun-SMITH, you mostly cease to be a good gun-SHOOTER, because you just don't have the time to shoot.

If you go the comm. college route, you can learn all kinds of things, even basic business accounting, and you can work on projects you want to do, since many of those schools have a limited curriculum, and if you're bringing in more esoteric projects that aren't necessarily gun-related, but complicated, they'll let you do them because you are refining your education.
Or, you could go to Ferlach, Austria for four years and get a real education in firearms....

But the one thing to remember is, the things YOU decide to work on, can be fun for YOU, and YOU don't have to make money by working on them, for anyone ELSE.

Didn't want to rain on your parade, but if you want to do it, do it, just don't HAVE to do it. Have something else, waiting in the wings...

 

[Fred Nickel]

Very few BR rifles are tested by the Gunsmith's that build them. A Gunsmith does the best job he can then turns the rifle over to the customer who then finds out if the barrel and other components are good.

If I didn't do my own, I still wouldn't want to have somebody put rounds down my barrel. I don't think a smith could spend enough range time and supplies without charging $200+. Most people that spend money with a smith are wanting to do their own tuning and evaluation.
A smith could do a great job tuning a rifle, but nobody would pay them for it.
Butch

Likely it's because I shoot rimfire, but I when I buy a rifle the smith will adjust the tuner, and at least tell me what results he has gotten with the specifc ammo that he used. I don't expect him to find "hand picked all around best ammo" for the rifle ..... but I do expect him to verify that it's capable.

OK .... so no testing ..... how long does it take to build a quality rifle ..... one where the smith is more concerned with quality that quantity (that's pronounced $$$$)

 

[Butch Lambert]

Fred,
A gunsmith will kill half a day at least loading all his reloading equip, going to the range, set flags, reload, and start shooting to work up a load. How much is he going to charge? I wouldn't do it for less than $250. Most guys won't pay that.
Butch

 

[Fred Nickel]

Butch,

No test shooting, no driving to the range, no flags, no reloading .... just asking how many hours does it take a good smith to build a quality .... I'm sure someone out there has built one ....

Fred

 

[TedH]

Don't forget that with a BR gun he would need to neck turn the brass, and fireform the brass. BUt he would need to also have a sizing button, sizing die, and seating die to match that reamer. Lets not forget brass and bullets to match.

I suppose if he was chambering up for a saami round he could just grab some factory ammo or use a standard saami spec die.

I am sure there are 10 or 15 guys who come to this forum who have built quality guns.

 

[TedH]

gunsmith, find out if your local community college has a machinery program, lots of guys do that, and learn to run machinery and think about how YOU would do something that you've picked up to admire.QUOTE]

I will say that most people will be hard pressed to find a community college that teaches machine shop these days.
I have not found anyplace in the Greater Austin TX area that teaches how to run a lathe and a mill.
Ted

 

[Fred Nickel]

I guess no-one is going to answer the question. If some one had an idea of how many hours it would take to smith a rifle, they could easily factor the cost of materials, and tools, and get some kind of estimate as to how many rifles they would need to produce to close up with "x" number of dollars. It would even help someone that was thinking about doing it part time as a second souce of income.

I guess it must be like some kind of secret hand shake or something ..... oh well

Fred

 

[Butch Lambert]

Fred,
I see nothing wrong with the secret handshake.
I only do my own work. I have at least $50,000 in my tools and tooling. I was fortunate to be able to buy a small machine shop's equip. for $20,000 several years ago. Time estimate on a BR rifle is tough for me as I do it when I want to. You have different things to do depending on the receiver and the stock. Some are almost like kits and some are major operations.
Butch

 

[MColeman]

Like Butch, I seldom complete a rifle from start to finish when I get started on it. Most of the time I flit from job to job---I'll chamber a barrel then I may do something to another job. For instance, while I'm waiting for the bedding to cure on one job I may chamber a barrel, take a break, work on the range, etc. It's hard to say exactly how long it takes to build a rifle.

I know that if gunsmithing were my only source of income I would have to work harder at it than I do.

One thing that is not taken into consideration is the phone call when a customer, or prospective customer, calls and wants to ask a hundred questions. I know that a lot of gunsmiths won't answer their phone and only return calls late in the afternoon. These are the business oriented gunsmiths that keep the 'bottom line' in mind at all times. Others, like myself, answer every call and then wish that I hadn't but a lifetime of selling insurance won't let me pass up a call. It's a curse.

 

[4Mesh]

I guess no-one is going to answer the question. If some one had an idea of how many hours it would take to smith a rifle, they could easily factor the cost of materials, and tools, and get some kind of estimate as to how many rifles they would need to produce to close up with "x" number of dollars. It would even help someone that was thinking about doing it part time as a second souce of income.

I guess it must be like some kind of secret hand shake or something ..... oh well

Fred

I would say that if you really have to ask the question, then you already have all the answers you need.

Hows this for a question. How long does it take a mechanic to fix a car?

Ahhh, care to tell us what is wrong?

You are asking as if there's any two rifles alike, and, fact is, that really doesn't matter anyhow. How long it takes depends on how busy the person is. If I guy has one gun to do, likely, it will take a long time. If a guy has 100 guns to do, it will likely take a long time. Hmmm, interesting answer eh? Sorta like in the machine shop business walking in and asking a guy how long it will take to make a part. Well, let's see, I'm gonna have xxx setup time, xxx work time, xxx materials prep time, etc. Ok, how long to make 1000 of em? Well, it's a pretty good bet that I can do them for less each than the cost of one.

Now, the same applies to guns, or anything else. Most gunsmiths are just busy enough to get stuff done in decent time, but, not quite busy enough to assembly line em. And, this is a market of all custom stuff, typically with a lot of hands on time.

The answer to your question is, go do them cause only you can come up with the answer. If one guy here can do one particular job faster than the next guy, he gets more money per hour for it. That is the incentive. The person who is more motivated will learn over time how to accomplish tasks faster, or they will go out of business. That is how business works. Are you motivated or not? I'm guessing that if you were, you'd have already gone and answered your own questions rather than asking here multiple times. Especially if you thought someone was "holding back" the answers.

 

[brian roberts]

Fred, the other day, I was talking to a guy...............

that is one of the Hot-Boat Gurus around here. We touched on such subjects liike, answering the 'phone; reciprocal basking in the mutual good feelings when he's pleased w/a job, and the customer is, too, but has run out of anything else meaningful to say and is repeating himself by re-arranging the words, anyway.

I stopped an told him, "Its a good thing you have the personality you do, you'd be a grouchy B'D if you didn't." He said that wasn't the half of it, the customers can drag your time, a bit, but the REAL irritant, the really infuriating bit was parts and contractors.

"I hate being lied to, even when I know, going in, that's what's gonna happen."
I know he's waited four months for a set of sleeves, and I know he's had to send junk back because it was made in shinkville and wouldn't stand what he wants it for.

Missed deadlines because suppliers didn't deliver on time. So, take some of these complaints, and realize that, while not commonplace in the gunworld, they do occur more frequently than they should, then couple that with a new guy who's starting out facing a barrelmaker thats 7-10 months back, trying to catch up, while building new machinery to produce more. Then the myriad of barrel profiles, twists, chamberings, etc. It doesn't take long to get in the loony-bin.

Oh, yeah. The Hot-Boat guy? The final payment to him is always in CASH!!

As he said, "No Munny -- No Funny." HTH

 

[Mike Bryant]

gunsmith, find out if your local community college has a machinery program, lots of guys do that, and learn to run machinery and think about how YOU would do something that you've picked up to admire.QUOTE]

I will say that most people will be hard pressed to find a community college that teaches machine shop these days.
I have not found anyplace in the Greater Austin TX area that teaches how to run a lathe and a mill.
Ted

The way things go anymore when lathe accidents happen like what happened at Yale, you'll probably find fewer and fewer colleges that are willing to take the liability of teaching machine shop courses which is unfortunate for manufacturing in the US. IMO, a country that loses it manufacturing jobs will soon be a second rate country.

 

[mwezell]

The way things go anymore when lathe accidents happen like what happened at Yale, you'll probably find fewer and fewer colleges that are willing to take the liability of teaching machine shop courses which is unfortunate for manufacturing in the US. IMO, a country that loses it manufacturing jobs will soon be a second rate country.

I agree Mike. Look around the house and count 5 things that were made in USA. It's not easy if you don't count guns and antiques. Todays machinists are more computer programmers than a machinist, as a whole. Our mfg. base is already just about gone to China and Mexico. Many gunsmiths are skilled in many areas that are considered a dying art and most are grossly underpaid. It's a labor of love and pride more than money.--Mike Ezell