Gun Tracking

R

russell m

Guest
My question is after recoil how far off of point of am is acceptable when you push the gun back to the front stop?Lets use the mothball as a reference. Also which direction does your gun go? Up & left - down & right? Should I work with the front bag or the rear bag to get my gun to come back to point of aim when pushed back to the front stop. rusell m
 
Russel

A lot depends on how well the Rifle functions, ie, is brass going in tight, and coming out tight. It is very difficult to get back on aim quickly if you are wrestling around with the Rifle.

If things are going well, I figure it should be within a line each time you push it back, which makes it real easy to get back on point of aim.

Be real aware of the rear back. Many problems crop up because, without knowing it, you can bump it with your arm or body while cycling the bolt........jackie
 
Never really thought about what might be acceptable, My reticle normaly will be slightly high. I feel that as long as the shot went were I wanted it to go and I am still on my target things are ok. I have my set up so I can still see the bullet hole just bellow the reticle dot when returned to battery. Good post. Be interresting to hear some suggestions.
 
Not really able to directly answer your question, just throw out a little more food for thought.

Years ago, when I first started shooting benchrest, most all the bags were leather. I, like many others, squeezed the rear bag to help aim the rifle. The bag was filled on the soft side. Also, I didn't use a front stop, the farther forward you shoved the rifle, the lower it pointed, and in the complex-to-describe-but-easy-to-do task of getting back on target, you pushed & squeezed & there you were.

Don't know about others, but my gun didn't "track" so well, at least, if by "tracking" you mean "always returning to the same point. It tracked well if you mean pulling it back & forth without firing.

At some point, I went to harder bags and a Farley rest. The rifle went back to the same point on the target more often.

Guess which system give me more unexplained fliers?
 
Charles

Charles E said:
At some point, I went to harder bags and a Farley rest. The rifle went back to the same point on the target more often.

Guess which system give me more unexplained fliers?
Click to expand...

My guess is the latter, with the harder bags and Farley??? Is this correct?...Ian
 
I'm waiting for your answer too Charles,
This is a subject I need to work on.
 
Fwiw,

In my limited experience one should "eject the spent round and chamber the new round" BEFORE retuning to battery. If one does this AFTER the return to battery, the aforementioned disrupts the bags. Also, I push my rifle back to battery with my hand, not my shoulder. Doing things this way, for me at least, gets my POA back pretty darn close. The TOUGHEST part is getting the POI the same!! Jan
 
The reason I brought the topic up is this past weekend I shot the score match at Tomball. My first target was 1x the second target was 1 x. During my practice the previous 2 weekend I was shooting groups,which is what I normally do. I was shooring in the one's & actually shot my first 0 group. But I was not moving gun around to different mothball's. I knew something was up. So after firing shot,reloading I would move the gun back to the front stop. It would be at leat 2 lines off. I would move the gune back & forth,off again. re-adjust. when I got the gun to return back to point of aim a couple of times when moving back & forth I would take my shot. I had to do this on each score target. It took time but the results were 3rd target 4x,4th target 5x,5th target 4x. I didn't miss the x by much on the 2 I missed. So I feel like I need to get the gun to come back to point of aim without moving back & forth & re-adjusting as much. russell m
 
Hey Russell,
I wish I could help you here but I'm the worst score shooter that ever lived.Perhaps some "Score Guru" types can shine some light on the subject.
Pete Wass,David Apple,Deen Breeden, Hal Drake,Randy Jarvais,where are you guys?
Joel
 
jo191145 said:
I'm waiting for your answer too Charles,
This is a subject I need to work on.
Click to expand...
I said I didn't really have an answer, and I meant it. In those days gone by, we (well, me) were also using 322 powder (and one really good batch of 2015-BR), different bullets, different stock profiles, a bit lighter loads, etc., etc. Hard to compare different eras.

Bags were different too. You didn't have rear bags where you could pick how many rows of stitches to snugly fit a certain buttstock.

But I do think things may have gone to far in hardening up the shooting platform. With the "very stable" platform, it is easier to shoot fast, and you do shoot some small ones. Whether the flyers have come from different powders, too-high pressures, different stock profiles, the bags, or just general aging, I couldn't say for sure.

All I'm really suggesting is if anyone is having problems, don't rule out too-hard bags as a cause without first testing.
 
Gun tracking

Russell M
I would look at you're rear bag. Do you have a second rear bag or one that is different than what you are using for group? Practice score shooting and look for repeted flyiers on higher targets. What rear bag are you using now? Dean
 
Mr. Nader, I am not sure if I am a score shooting guru and in the class as others, but thank you for the kind words. I use a Farley front and an Edgewood rear. I have at times slid my rifle back and forth as mentioned to resettle it in the bags after I have gone to the next record target, particularly the top ones, but not often. I have only done that when conditions were so switchy that I couldn't get more than the one shot off at time and needed to wait for the condition to return. Normally I am already moving to the next target while I am loading and returning to battery so I can't tell you how far off it would have been if I had stayed on the same target. If conditions are holding, and the bullets are going where expected then I am off and running for as long as the condition holds.

Russell M if your shots that were not x's were mostly vertical, you may have the rear bag too hard. I experienced that this past year in Vermont. I had been shooting well weeks prior to Vermont but then reread Ratigan's book and decided I needed more sand in my rear bag. Big mistake on my part. 2nd day I corrected it and shot much better but the damage had been done. Too hard is almost like the gun bouncing instead of tracking smoothly. Randy J.
 
Yup, He's a Guru .. Dont let him fool you.
I knew there was a real reason I placed 1 " x" ahead of you at 100 yards in vermont. I have some extra sand if you'd like to test your theory at the first 5-6 matches this year Randy.
 
Andy-thanks very much for the kind offer but as I mentioned, I already have more sand than I need. As far as proving my theory-it isn't a theory once it is proven and again, I have already taken care of that part also. Please know that I truly appreciate your kindness and I will try to extend you the same considerations at every opportunity. :) Randy J.
 
Dean I am using David's rear bag. Which acts the same as my old bag. the old bag is a Protektor 13 with rabbit ears. I used a dryer sheet under the leather ears. Got tired of the dryer sheet slipping out so I got David's rear bag with the material sewed into the ears. It has mid ears. The bag & ears are not overfilled, very soft. I put a little bit of heavy sand back into them that I had taken out when I got the bag. The only other think I can think of is changing the sand to play sand in the ears. I know
the gun will shoot. I would like to be able to take advantage of the conditions when I get them. Moving the gun back & forth 5 to 6 times between shots takes to much time & I loose the condition. Thanks for all the help everyone. russell m
 
Rear bag

Russell
Ok a couple of questions light or heavy gun , 6ppc or 30 br, what kind of stock are you using, is it flat or round on the bottom, and is the bag a used bag that David sold to you or is this the same that he uses. double stich or triple stich between the ears?
Dean
 
Dean
6PPC,Mcclain stock,rounded,double stich,new bag that he is selling.
russell m
 
Rear bag

Ok next is the stock riding on the stiching or is it riding on the base of the two ears? It's probably on the base of both ears witch is fine but you will need more sand in the ears for support.
Dean
 
Dean
It is was riding at the very base of the ears,but not on the sticking. When & put a little sand back in the ears it brought it up about 3/8 inch off of the stiching.
The ears do feel a little firmer. russell m
 
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