Good news about LT32
- Thread starter Boyd Allen
- Start date
E
ehparis
Guest
Got it. Thanks for the URL. They are taking back orders with shipment date of 1/15/13.
Speedy's comments on LT-32
What are "jones" settings? I see they must be powder measure settings as they are in grains. Is that a type of powder measure? Would the numbers he states be similar to those on a Harrels measure?
Ben Foster
Boyd
What are "jones" settings? I see they must be powder measure settings as they are in grains. Is that a type of powder measure? Would the numbers he states be similar to those on a Harrels measure?
Ben Foster
Boyd Allen
Active member
http://www.neiljones.com/html/measure.html
The number system is similar, but I would not count on any measure's numbers being the same, even if it was the same make and model. LT 32 is a bit faster than 133, and slightly more dense. I suggest that you do a one shot per load, .3 gr interval, pressure/velocity test, on the same target, over a chronograph, starting at about 27 grains. Up near a full case, you can get into some fairly zippy numbers. The big deal is that this powder should not be as sensitive to ambient condition changes that happen through the course of an all day match. It is a little dirtier, but not excessively. Unless you are overdoing your cleaning with 133, you probably should plan on adjusting your cleaning routine. It is easy to throw within +- .1 gr. Given this reality, it may be that those that convert can go back to their powder measures.
The number system is similar, but I would not count on any measure's numbers being the same, even if it was the same make and model. LT 32 is a bit faster than 133, and slightly more dense. I suggest that you do a one shot per load, .3 gr interval, pressure/velocity test, on the same target, over a chronograph, starting at about 27 grains. Up near a full case, you can get into some fairly zippy numbers. The big deal is that this powder should not be as sensitive to ambient condition changes that happen through the course of an all day match. It is a little dirtier, but not excessively. Unless you are overdoing your cleaning with 133, you probably should plan on adjusting your cleaning routine. It is easy to throw within +- .1 gr. Given this reality, it may be that those that convert can go back to their powder measures.
Tim Oltersdorf
Active member
A drop by any other name
Ben, A Jones, Harrels, Bruno and others are Powder measures. The numbers on the measuring drum are graduated in numbers separated by little dots. The Jones has 3 dots between numbers. The Harrels premium has 5. This system uses a little ball and spring on its interior which give a tactile click feel when the adjustment is turned. The numbers are called clicks. . Most 6PPC BR loadings will fall between 47-57 on the number scale depending on the type of powder and cartridge/rifle configuration. These dots and numbers will be similar in powder weight between different brands of measures but will not necessarily be exactly the same. The differences in the way shooters throw their charges and their reasons for doing so vary. What seems to be important is the repeatability of their technique. Back in the good old days when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I started shooting benchrest it was fashionable to discuss powder charges in terms of clicks and numbers. For instance if the setting was 53 and two additional dots on a Jones the charge would be given as 53 and 1/2 clicks Two being 1/2 of the distance between numbers. On a Harrels this would be number 53 and 3 dots. This sounds confusing but is easy to remember. Now it seems the fashion is to discuss powder charges in terms of grains of powder. This is more accurate and takes into account the differences between measures and the changing density of powder during the day. I would suggest that you sit down inside and try different methods of throwing powder using a powder scale to measure at least 10 sequential charges to find the most precise method for you. The best I have been able to do is +/- 0.1 grain for a spread of 0.2 grains. This is on a good day when my palsy is minimal. Once you have determined which method to use write down the weight of powder conforming to the numbers and clicks of the powder you are using. Do this for the full range of numbers and clicks you use to reload. Tape this to the side of your powder bottle. This will vary between powders and may vary between different lots of the same powder. Other methods are weighing each charge and using a RCBS Chargemaster. Good luck and good shooting. Tim
Ben, A Jones, Harrels, Bruno and others are Powder measures. The numbers on the measuring drum are graduated in numbers separated by little dots. The Jones has 3 dots between numbers. The Harrels premium has 5. This system uses a little ball and spring on its interior which give a tactile click feel when the adjustment is turned. The numbers are called clicks. . Most 6PPC BR loadings will fall between 47-57 on the number scale depending on the type of powder and cartridge/rifle configuration. These dots and numbers will be similar in powder weight between different brands of measures but will not necessarily be exactly the same. The differences in the way shooters throw their charges and their reasons for doing so vary. What seems to be important is the repeatability of their technique. Back in the good old days when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I started shooting benchrest it was fashionable to discuss powder charges in terms of clicks and numbers. For instance if the setting was 53 and two additional dots on a Jones the charge would be given as 53 and 1/2 clicks Two being 1/2 of the distance between numbers. On a Harrels this would be number 53 and 3 dots. This sounds confusing but is easy to remember. Now it seems the fashion is to discuss powder charges in terms of grains of powder. This is more accurate and takes into account the differences between measures and the changing density of powder during the day. I would suggest that you sit down inside and try different methods of throwing powder using a powder scale to measure at least 10 sequential charges to find the most precise method for you. The best I have been able to do is +/- 0.1 grain for a spread of 0.2 grains. This is on a good day when my palsy is minimal. Once you have determined which method to use write down the weight of powder conforming to the numbers and clicks of the powder you are using. Do this for the full range of numbers and clicks you use to reload. Tape this to the side of your powder bottle. This will vary between powders and may vary between different lots of the same powder. Other methods are weighing each charge and using a RCBS Chargemaster. Good luck and good shooting. Tim
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Powder measure settings
Boyd/Tim
Thank you for the very informative comments. I do have a Harrels BR measure and am just getting use to throwing consistent loads.
I was looking at Speedy's testing of the LT-32 and I saw "Jones settings" noted.
I'am kind of new to BR. Only shot a 6br a couple of yrs. just got a 6ppc Panda only fire formed so far.
Looking at doing load development when I started seeing info on LT-32 and read Speedy's testing report.
Thanks again
Ben
Boyd/Tim
Thank you for the very informative comments. I do have a Harrels BR measure and am just getting use to throwing consistent loads.
I was looking at Speedy's testing of the LT-32 and I saw "Jones settings" noted.
I'am kind of new to BR. Only shot a 6br a couple of yrs. just got a 6ppc Panda only fire formed so far.
Looking at doing load development when I started seeing info on LT-32 and read Speedy's testing report.
Thanks again
Ben
LT-32 in 6ppc
Boyd
I just got my LT-32 and tried some of Speedy' original testing loads in a 6ppc case and could not get any more than 28.0 gr which fills the case neck right to the top. I don't see how I could possibly get 28.7 or 29.3 as mentioned in his testing blog. Even the data that Accurate sent me had up to 30gr with 55 gr bullets and 28.2 with 68 gr bullets.
That seems like a lot of powder crush to me. it looks like anything more than 28 would spill out of the case.
Ben
Boyd
I just got my LT-32 and tried some of Speedy' original testing loads in a 6ppc case and could not get any more than 28.0 gr which fills the case neck right to the top. I don't see how I could possibly get 28.7 or 29.3 as mentioned in his testing blog. Even the data that Accurate sent me had up to 30gr with 55 gr bullets and 28.2 with 68 gr bullets.
That seems like a lot of powder crush to me. it looks like anything more than 28 would spill out of the case.
Ben
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
technique, technique,
technique.
1. long drop tube, 8"+
2. trickle drop
3. magic tool.............................cheap cordless toothbrush, or a vibrator of your choice.
technique.
1. long drop tube, 8"+
2. trickle drop
3. magic tool.............................cheap cordless toothbrush, or a vibrator of your choice.
LT-32 loads
David
Thanks I'll try your suggestions. I was using a 4" drop tube all I have is a 6" I'll try it with the trickle effect and see if that works better. I did try tapping the case on my bench but case still stayed full. It did not settle. Which surprised me that powder must be dense in the case.
Ben
David
Thanks I'll try your suggestions. I was using a 4" drop tube all I have is a 6" I'll try it with the trickle effect and see if that works better. I did try tapping the case on my bench but case still stayed full. It did not settle. Which surprised me that powder must be dense in the case.
Ben
Boyd Allen
Active member
You are talking about fire formed cases aren't you? I will walk out to the garage and bring in some of the powder, set up my measure and scale, and get back to you after a while, perhaps with a picture. This stuff is easier to throw close than 133, and is a little more dense. I can shoot more than 30 grains of 133 with a long drop and very slow (intermittent) fill. In mentioning this, I am not claiming to be able to do anything special. This is pretty common stuff.
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
Like Boyd
when needed, I can get 30+ grn N-133 in a case. With the kernel shape of LT32, I would not be surprised if you can get way more in. But it has to trickled, and vibrating is a lot better than tapping. I watched an unnamed S. African get 3/16" - 1/4" above the case down to 1/8" below the mouth w/ judicious application of toothbrush vibrating.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Using a fired case, with the primer still in, a setting of 54 on my Harrell's with the technique that works the best for this powder (different than the one that works the best with 133), on my second drop, I got a hair over 30.1 gr., which, with a very slow and intermittent drop down a 10" .22 caliber drop tube, was at a level that was just above the bottom of the case neck. That same charge, transferred to the scale pan, and quickly dumped into the same case, using a RCBS funnel, overflowed the case, leaving a few granules on the desk top when the funnel was removed from the case. I would say that the slow drop is 60% and the long tube 40%.
The camera seems to have some issues.
The camera seems to have some issues.
LT-32 and measure
Tripleduce, I have a Lyman /Culver and a Harrels. W/the Culver, I dropped 10 charges in the pan. The setting was 51.5 clicks w/4" tube. (Culver only has one click between #'s) Of the ten, 9 weighed 28.8 and 1 28.7. Next , I dropped 5 charges , @ same setting into 5 re-sized cases. All were just above bottom of case neck. The Harrels measure set @ 52 even, w/8" tube, I dropped 10 charges, Charges varied from 28.9 to 28.7 I then dropped 5 charges into the resized cases. I could not tell any difference from the loads dropped by the Culver (as far as where the powder came up into the neck). In my cases , getting 30 gr of LT-32 would be no problem. I have some Sako cases that will hold even more. I don't know why you are having problem w/cases holding 29gr. Thanks for reading
HFV
Tripleduce, I have a Lyman /Culver and a Harrels. W/the Culver, I dropped 10 charges in the pan. The setting was 51.5 clicks w/4" tube. (Culver only has one click between #'s) Of the ten, 9 weighed 28.8 and 1 28.7. Next , I dropped 5 charges , @ same setting into 5 re-sized cases. All were just above bottom of case neck. The Harrels measure set @ 52 even, w/8" tube, I dropped 10 charges, Charges varied from 28.9 to 28.7 I then dropped 5 charges into the resized cases. I could not tell any difference from the loads dropped by the Culver (as far as where the powder came up into the neck). In my cases , getting 30 gr of LT-32 would be no problem. I have some Sako cases that will hold even more. I don't know why you are having problem w/cases holding 29gr. Thanks for reading
HFV
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Even without the toothbrush, with proper technique and funnel you should be able to easily get 31 grains of LT-32 in a 6PPC case and have about 3/32" left to start the bullet.
I do not have any of this first lot of LT32 but I have a jug of Canadian 2015 lot#3, which according to Keith Anderson at Ramshot/Accurate, is supposed to be the standard for that product. It is at least the exact same grain size and bulk density.
I do measure from a Chargemaster so the dump process is slightly different that dumping from a Culver type measure. If you will get an MTM 5-in-1 funnel kit and use the long extension. Simply pour, slowly, along the mid part of the funnel cone so the powder will spiral around some before it enters the drop tube 31 grains is easy.
With a very slow pour I can get 31.2 in a 1.500" long case and still have room to start the bullet. 31.5 will go but it is tricky to start the bullet without a few grains of powder getting on the case neck and mess up the seating process.
tripleduce,
Thanks to Jerry, you now know what "a slow dump" is eh??? To elaborate a little, taking a slow dump allows the powder to "trickle" thru the drop tube which can, under some conditions, almost stack the granules into the case like cordwood. Some of the tricks include use of a "long drop tube" (which should also include some talk about diameter of same) that not only allows for longer fall/more velocity but also aligns the grains somewhat, and the practice of sliding a stretched-out spring into the tube which makes the grains come down the tube in a line like liddle train cars.
Jerry's method is the result of the recent trend toward weighed charges, key is the "slow and swirling" motion. In other words you don't just dump the stuff into the funnel, you trickle it into the edge and let it align itself by rolling around the funnel.
Experimentation is the key.
And crushing grains, ie "compressed charges," IS NOT part of the program.
al
Thanks to Jerry, you now know what "a slow dump" is eh??? To elaborate a little, taking a slow dump allows the powder to "trickle" thru the drop tube which can, under some conditions, almost stack the granules into the case like cordwood. Some of the tricks include use of a "long drop tube" (which should also include some talk about diameter of same) that not only allows for longer fall/more velocity but also aligns the grains somewhat, and the practice of sliding a stretched-out spring into the tube which makes the grains come down the tube in a line like liddle train cars.
Jerry's method is the result of the recent trend toward weighed charges, key is the "slow and swirling" motion. In other words you don't just dump the stuff into the funnel, you trickle it into the edge and let it align itself by rolling around the funnel.
Experimentation is the key.
And crushing grains, ie "compressed charges," IS NOT part of the program.
al