gluing the action in the stock

T

tom mann

Guest
I am a new benchrest shooter and have a viper 6ppc. The action has come unglued from the laminated stock and needs to be reglued.
What type & brand of glue should I use?
Is there anything special that I need to pay attention to in doing this? I would think it needs to hold but in the future, I may need to pull it apart for repairs
Thanks in advance for you help.
 
If you haven't glued one in before, I would let an experienced stocker do it for you. I messed up the first "glue in" I did.

Can you post a picture of the Stock and Action?



Glenn
 
Tom,
It is not that difficult to re glue your action back into the stock. One of the most common glue/epoxy's used is JB weld. You need to clean up the bottom of the action and also you need to scuff up the bedding in the stock. I remove the trigger and put a piece of tape over the trigger opening, I use painters blue masking tape and when applied I have a very minimal overlap on each side and the ends of the opening. you will need to have a bunch of Q-tios on hand to remove and glue/epoxy that leaks out around the action and around the trigger opening. I use a plastic automotive body spreader that I cut to the same width as the inside of the stock to apply the glue/epoxy to the surfaces of the action and the stock. It does not take a lot of glue/epoxy, just a thin layer on each surface, then lower the receiver back into the stock, and I use surgical tubing, tied around the action lightly to keep some pressure on it while cleaning up any epoxy the has oozed out,with the q-tips. Once everything is set up usually 24 hours you can undo the surgical tubing, and the piece of tape covering the trigger opening, and re-install the trigger and trigger guard and your done.
 
It may be that the surface is too slick on a Viper

My glue-in Viper has come apart on its own twice. I have had screws installed to fix the problem.

Harold
 
I am really surprised

at that. All of the Vipers I have bedded have had a cross hatch pattern machined into the bottom of the action.
Never have had any issues with any of them.

Richard
 
Harold M said:
My glue-in Viper has come apart on its own twice. I have had screws installed to fix the problem.

Harold
Click to expand...


30BR?..Still shouldn't give trouble, but sometimes they do. I went to gluing and screwing a long time ago for this reason, on a 30BR and up. I too have had one come loose...Then again, some actions only have a rear tang screw and it seems that very few have a problem. The screws make me feel better.
 
Richard said:
at that. All of the Vipers I have bedded have had a cross hatch pattern machined into the bottom of the action.
Never have had any issues with any of them.

Richard
Click to expand...

We were surprised, too. The receiver is cross-hatched as you observed. Maybe the number of matches fired at Dunham's Bay in the winter could be a factor. But life is short, and properly-torqued screws won't come loose. Gunsmith has built dozens of winning rifles and this is the only one (I believe) to have the problem.

Harold
 
The hard anodizing and cross hatch patterns are designed to increase the strength of the bond, and more bonding area. Jerry Stiller is an experienced engineer who included both quite intentionally. My Viper was glued into its fiberglass stock over a decade ago and has been quite secure ever since. Why don't you call Stiller Precision and ask them what they recommend. Other than cleaning off all of the old adhesive, and making sure that the surface is dry and contamination free, I would leave the action alone. You may want to remove all of the old adhesive from the stock, rebed the action and then glue the action in, after being sure to remove all of the release from both surfaces. I have a rifle that was glued at Mcmillan. It was bedded in Marine Tex, and glued with JB Weld, which by all accounts is an excellent adhesive.
 
Harold, take a hard look at loctite fixmaster with steel, it ain't cheap but works very well with extremely low shrinkage.
 
I have always used JB weld

and not the industrial strength! Once in awhile if you have to take one out it's nice not to have to use an axe!!
With a little heat the regular JB comes apart fairly nice. I don't know about the other products, they may be just fine, but I guess why chance it.

Richard
 
[QU.OTE=tom mann;765887]I am a new benchrest shooter and have a viper 6ppc. The action has come unglued from the laminated stock and needs to be reglued.
What type & brand of glue should I use?
Is there anything special that I need to pay attention to in doing this? I would think it needs to hold but in the future, I may need to pull it apart for repairs
Thanks in advance for you help.[/QUOTE]

I did think of JB weld. The plastic automotive piece is a good idea to get a smooth layer of JB down in the stock before stocking together. The glue surface is about 2" by 4". Would you recommend covering that whole area with JB or would that be too much of a bond to get apart later down the road?
 
I put JB

everywhere I can. The regular stuff will come apart fine if it needs to. Just keep it out of the trigger area. Plug any areas (like screw holes and bolt stop hole) Also keep in mind bbl clearance. Don't goober up the front of the action.
Richard
 
JB Weld.

On a 30BR, it would not hurt to screw and glue it if the stock has provisions for it. But, I have no doubts that a proper glue in will hold just fine.
 
Id ruff up the sides below the stock line with a dremel or somethin. It needs teeth on the sides like the bottom. Doesnt take 100% coverage just ruff it up
 
Actually,

the last I heard from Jerry he didn't recommend doing anything to the surface of the action. He said the hard anodizing actually bonded better than the aluminum.

Richard
 
Hard anodizing doesnt put teeth there for the glue to grab into but hes the action maker. I know what id do and it wouldnt come out til i wanted it to.
 
The oxide layer that forms rather quickly on bare aluminum significantly reduces the strength of the bond. Annodizing is standard practice to avoid that problem, at least that is the way that Jerry explained it to me, years ago. At the time he was working as an engineer for Ratheon and this sort of information was directly related to his job. The fly cutting was done to increase the area. Mine has been secure since it was glued in. I believe that at the time he used epoxy (for the actual gluing) that was designed for attaching golf club heads to their shafts. I believe that this was because that is an application that requires high impact resistance.
 
Be sure and have some Pledge spray wax on hand. After you scrap off excess JB that squeezes out, spray Pledge on a paper towel and wipe off stock and action to clean off wet epoxy.
RR
 
Rex Reneau said:
Be sure and have some Pledge spray wax on hand. After you scrap off excess JB that squeezes out, spray Pledge on a paper towel and wipe off stock and action to clean off wet epoxy.
RR
Click to expand...

Sounds like Rex knows what he's talking about here! I'll add that when using a slow setting compound, keep a close watch on the 'ooze' until it begins to set.
 
I have read this thread today and I am surprised that most of you do not know how epoxy works. When we first started using our epoxy, we had the epoxy engineers come down and see what we were doing. One thing they told us was that Epoxy is designed to be used as THIN as possible to get best adhesion. We showed them how people dremel the bottom of action or cut in cross marks. The engineers told us this is actually not as good as doing nothing, That when the glue is thicker it is actually not as strong as if it was thinner. Therefore if you are using a dremel or cross cuts you are actually making the epoxy not as strong. We were told this in the middle 80's and we still use same epoxy. Now the thinner might be good for type of epoxy we use, I am not sure about other types of systems gunsmiths are using, but the only actions I have seen come unglued we built, were rifles we shipped to Europe and they came apart in the airplane cargo hold, probably due to cold temps, plus they were round stainless Grizzlys, not the original aluminum actions we build.

I have seen many Panda actions that have come unglued, most during shooting and many were dremeled or cross cut on bottom or not using our type of epoxy. That is why we do not do as Jerry does on our Panda action. Our glue ins last ten years plus with out coming out as the dremeled or cross cut actions we have seen over the years, some were less than a year old. Just what I have seen over the last 33 years of building actions and rifles.

Jim
 
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