Getting started.

[JDBraddy]

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to benchrest. I'm trying to get started, but work weekends, every weekend, so it makes it difficult to attend any matches. Unfortunately this sort of isolates me to some extent from what would probably be my best access to more experienced local shooters who could mentor me. Anyhow, I'm doing my best to get started, I traded for a used Rem-700 in 6PPC.

The gentleman that traded it to me, gave me 50 pieces of brass for it to get me started. I bought some Redding FL, SB, Type-S bushing dies, I currently have a Dillon 550 and a Lee hand press, I used those to load the first batch of ammo, 67gr Barts Bullet on top of 27gr H-322 and a CCI magnum SR primer. I guess it came out OK, here are the results.

I do need to choose a portable reloading press that I can take to the range with me however. Any advice on choosing one that offers the best bang for the buck in terms of features and cost, would be appreciated. I also need to learn to make more brass for it. I have no experience with wildcat case forming or neck turning. I ordered a sinclair neck turning kit and expender die and 100rnds of Lapua 220 Russian brass. Everything has come in except the brass. I downloaded the instructions from Sinclair, but am still feeling very insecure about trying it.

 

[Alan Schenck]

It looks like you have a good point to start from Go to the FAQ section and you will get much of the information that you need. As to missing weekend matches, you can improve on your own until you get to be somewhat competitive then you might have to take some weekend off to see how the regulars do it. I face somewhat of a problem myself being from northern Minnesota and having no matches close by, but I can consistently shoot groups that would be competitive in results of matches posted here. Keep working at it and you will improve. It is not a bad thing to be in competion with youself. Good luck and happy shooting. Al.

 

[HovisKM]

Mr. Braddy,

The most economical press for range loading is the RCBS Partner press. You can probalby go to ebay and save a few buck on a used one. If the ram is a tight fit to it's sleeve, either polish the shaft or the sleeve area to free it up a little (.001 or so). Other than that, a Harrell's custom press is probably the most popular custom press and are around twice the price. But like most things, the sky is the limit, there are really expensive one's out there.

In compontents, I would try Federal or Winchester primers, they just seem to produce better groups, with the federal 205 & 205M being the most popular.

There is one equipment hiccup that disqualifies that rifle from being used in registered short range benchrest...it's the stock. It does not meet the rules. The good thing is, that's a popular long range stock and should be easy to sell or trade for a legal stock. You didn't mention how heavy the gun is but that could be a problem also but with the correct stock, the weight is probably easily fixed. But before you get bumbed at what I just mentioned, it's still a good pratice or club rifle until you can work the bugs out.

Don't worry about making brass, after you do it once, you'll be fine. I would recommend that you get Mike Ratigan's and Tony Boyer's books on Short Range Benchrest, they will teach you a lot.

Hovis

 

[Wilbur]

Frank Murphy's method

You have most of the stuff Frank mentions. You don't need two neck turners. Pretty easy stuff unless you get caught up trying to cut your necks uniform to a jillionth. Cut a few necks and you'll be a Pro!

______________________________________

220 Russian to 6PPC - FLM

Best advice: get the BR primer from "Precision Shooting", read the articles by Dick Wright on "getting started."

In the meantime, here is one approach (responsible practitioners differ, mileage may vary, read prospectus before investing):

You need:

--virgin Lapua 220R brass

--6 PPC chamber with a narrow neck (often .262, but not always)

--a 6 PPC FL die

--two neck turners (yes, unfortunately, two, unless you actually like adjusting the damned things)

--a 6 mm expander mandrel that is .001"-.002" bigget than the mandrel on the turner

--a Wilson trimmer with the .220R shellholder and the PPC shellholder

--deburring tool

Steps consist of:

--weight sort the brass, or not, depending on your religion

--lube the inside of the neck (Q-tip, case lube)

--run the brass over the expanding mandrel

--check lengths. If your brass is like mine, they'll all be the same; this is the miracle of Lapua brass in action. If not, trim as little as possible to make them all the same length. Chamfer or deburr the inner lip of the case neck (outer doesn't matter at this point).

--use a set of feeler gauges, if you like, and adjust the first trimmer to get you to within a half a thou or less of your goal for neck thickness

--adjust the length of cut so that with your brass the cutter just kisses the shoulder when the case mouth hits the stop

--use the brass that didn't weigh right to set up this process

--lube the mandrel on the turner and lube the inside of the case neck

--run a case on the trimmer; if its too tight, get a bigger expander mandrel and start over

--give all the cases their preliminary turning, keeping everything clean and free of chips to avoid marring the neck surface

--set up the second trimmer similarly to give a thickness of .0001 to .0003 over your ideal final thickness (it'll thin with the first few firings). After you've fiddled around for a while adjusting the trimmer, you'll see why I said tp get two trimmers.

--run all the brass through this second turning. As this is the finish cut, use a somewhat higher speed and a very fine feed; you might want to run the brass twice.

--use your ball mic or case checker to check for thickness and uniformity (sorry, I didn't put these on your shopping list)

--degrease your brass, using hot soap and water (simple green works well--just boil the brass in a solution of this) or lacquer thinner or whatever. I use boiling detergent solutions when I'm feeling environmental, sovlent when I'm in a hurry.

--if the neck won't grip a bullet when it comes off the turner, FL size and do not reexpand, for a firm grip

--deburr case mouth. If you believe in a long taper internal chamfer, now is the time to cut it.

--put a bullet in a case to make a dummy round. Check neck OD (it should be OK, but why take chances?), and check for fit in the chamber gauge if you have one, in the chamber (striker assembly removed) if you don't. Ideally, the prepared case will chamber freely as the case neck enters the neck of the chamber, indicating that you didn't make the neck too fat, but develop
some feel as you close the bolt, indicating a close headspace fit between the round and the chamber. Usually, this won't happen, as the brass is manufactured not to be longer than spec and the chamber not to be shorter. If you trust "bullet jam" (see below) to hold the case back against the bolt face (I do for short headspaced PPC chambers), all is well. If not, over-expand the neck to something like 6.5 mm or 7 mm, then go back to the FL die and adjust to get a crush fit. I avoid this for the PPC, out of fear of what will happen with all that expanding and sizing of the neck.

--prime, fill with your usual 6 PPC powder, using a long drop tube and vibration to get as much in as you can, bringing the powder up into the neck. This is counter to the usual advice to FF with reduced loads, but that advice is wrong: fire forming means deforming the brass beyond its elastic limit, and that calls for high pressure. As is, the case capacity is reduced though
chamber capacity is not, and you won't be able to get in as much powder or produce as much pressure as you will with your subsequent PPC loads.

--seat the bullet well out, for a good hard jam into the lands

--fire the rounds

--apply the primer pocket uniformer, and flash hole uniformer/deburrer if you care to--many feel these steps are not needed with this high quality brass

--at this point, some people run through another neck turning; I don't think you need to, but opinions differ

--I trim the case mouths and deburr here, just a thou or so, to be sure everything is square.

--Done.

As I said, opinions about how to do this are like hemorrhoids (you know the joke), and I only say that this way makes sense to me. Others may do it differently, and I'll probably do it differently too, a few months from now.

FLM

 

[Alan Schenck]

Wilbur, I'm glad you remembered Frank Murphy's method. If it hadn't been for Frank I might not have gotten very interested in benchrest shooting. I still have a copy of his last post - the one from the day he died. He was agreat guy. Al.

 

[JohnsonGunsmith]

I am willing to discuss any of this with you and give my oppinions. I also have a little range at my home I practice at that you are free to shoot at for no charge. I am no expert by any means but have had some help along the way and been given great advice that I would love to send to the next guy. I see that you are in San Antonio and thats a little ways from me but I will tell you what I know and have learned like reading groups on your target and tell you do not be afraid of wildcats it can be done safely. listen to the guys on this website there is a ton of experiance and information here that is freely given if you will allow people to give it. so if you would like you are invited to shoot and learn all you can from me. for all I know you will teach me and your just being humble. anyway I'd love to help you anyway I can, and bring all your stuff and we will build some PPC brass together and take all the VOODOO outa the process so you are comfortable doing it yourself. I hope all goes well in your new addiction and welcome to group OCD, where it is not only ok, but helps to be obsesive compulsive.

 

[abintx]

STOP!

Don't do another thing until you read: THE BOOK OF RIFLE ACCURACY by TONY BOYER.

Distributor: http://www.brunoshooterssupply.com/ Price $34.50

You're going to get all kinds of sincere and well-meaning advice on this site that's going to run the gamut from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Might as well start with the best and most comprehensive advice from the greatest Benchrest shooter of all-time.

Then you can compare notes.

 

[rcheek]

If you have not been up to New Braunfels to Howard Dietz's range, you need to go. There is always someone there who will be happy to visit with you and give you some good information.

 

[Wilbur]

Wilbur, I'm glad you remembered Frank Murphy's method. If it hadn't been for Frank I might not have gotten very interested in benchrest shooting. I still have a copy of his last post - the one from the day he died. He was agreat guy. Al.

Would you kindly share Frank's last post with us?

 

[alinwa]

Wilbur, do you ever wish this forum could have been saved on a terrabyte somewhere???

I know I've wish't it

But that FLM one might make me cry

al

 

[JDBraddy]

Thanks Guys,

I went ahead and ordered the RCBS Partner press from Midway, as well as a K&M priming tool, brass, and some other stuff from Bruno shooters supply. Will check out the book mentioned, but am reeding The Accurate Varmint Rifle by Boyd Mace, and The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glenn Newick right now. I will check out the match at Dietz's if I can ever get a weekend off, I've driven by their matches before, on my way to shoot Highpower, or SB Silhouette on the CTSA range behind Dietz's range. I've met Fred Jamison, Jerry Hensler, I think they still shoots those matches. I wanted to see what the gun would do at 300yds, and it didn't fail to impress, below a couple of my best groups at 300yds.

 

[Brian]

Maybe I missed it but I don't think you mentioned weather you had wind flags or not. If you're not shooting over flags your wasting your time.

 

[Fergus Bailey]

Will check out the book mentioned, but am reeding The Accurate Varmint Rifle by Boyd Mace, and The Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy by Glenn Newick right now.

Those are both good books, but are now too old to give you any insight into what it takes to be competitive in a modern BR competition. Before you invest in any equipment, you are much better served to read the Boyer book, and also Mike Ratigan’s book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy). A lot has changed, and these 2 books are the only ones that address the current era of BR.

 

[David Halblom]

Those are both good books, but are now too old to give you any insight into what it takes to be competitive in a modern BR competition. Before you invest in any equipment, you are much better served to read the Boyer book, and also Mike Ratigan’s book (Extreme Rifle Accuracy). A lot has changed, and these 2 books are the only ones that address the current era of BR.

Fergus,

I beg to disagree. The older books need to be read to understand the newer ones. Just reading Tony's or Ratigan's book will give a newby no basis to refer to. W/O the basics, you have nothing to go on but "faith", and that is where you are bound to get lost.

 

[Charles E]

Beg to disagree, too, David. The equipment side of benchrest today is about getting a winning rifle. It use to be about building a *better* rifle. Probably inevitable that the sport changed from trying things out to winning, doesn't make it any less sad. Building a winning rifle under the current rules is cookbook; the exception is we don't know what makes for really good barrels -- that part's just lottery.

As Wilbur has said so many times, buy a good rifle when you find one. Equipment issue solved. Learning to shoot in the wind is the main thing that stands in the way of someone's winning.

 

[David Halblom]

Beg to disagree, too, David. The equipment side of benchrest today is about getting a winning rifle. It use to be about building a *better* rifle. Probably inevitable that the sport changed from trying things out to winning, doesn't make it any less sad. Building a winning rifle under the current rules is cookbook; the exception is we don't know what makes for really good barrels -- that part's just lottery.

As Wilbur has said so many times, buy a good rifle when you find one. Equipment issue solved. Learning to shoot in the wind is the main thing that stands in the way of someone's winning.

Absolutely!!!!

 

[Chism G]

Getting Started

I remember when I got started. Bought a used rifle. Replaced the barrel that came on the rifle. That new barrel turned out to be a special one. It made me believe i knew how to shoot ,before I actually had much experience reading wind flags.

haven't had a barrel quite like it since. Match reports with my name on them, prove it. I am convinced that barrels have replaced scopes as the weakest link to achieving extreme accuracy.




Glenn

 

[Charles E]

Here's another key to winning. I dunno if I'd call it part of getting started, but if, as you plan your start, winning a lot is a significant part of your goal, get a range at your home.

There are world-class shooters who don't have a rage at their house. But I'll bet more do. And there are a few duds who do have a home range, but not many.

It has to be an outdoor range, BTW. "Competitive benchrest" is an expensive sport. And if your going to shoot 600 and 1,000 yards, I'd say you need at least a 300 yard range at home. The longer the better. There are a few 1,000 yard shooters who actually have (had) a 1,000 yard range at home -- Regan Green comes to mind... Point-blank guys have it easier, 200 yards is enough.

 

[Fergus Bailey]

Fergus,

I beg to disagree. The older books need to be read to understand the newer ones. Just reading Tony's or Ratigan's book will give a newby no basis to refer to. W/O the basics, you have nothing to go on but "faith", and that is where you are bound to get lost.

Hi David

Let me say here, I am not trying to convince anyone I am “right”, just explain my thinking behind the original post. I think in general terms, there are two types of competitors in BR today. One is a person who wants to win, the other is a person who wants to learn/innovate, and sees the competition circuit as a proving ground or simply an enjoyable way to spend their time and socialise. I am not suggesting one is any "better" or more worthy than the other, however my bias is towards being competitive first and foremost and that is where my answer was coming from.

As Charles has pointed out, there is a formula today for a competitive BR rifle and equipment. I believe it is possible to read the Boyer and Ratigan books, take them on "faith", buy equipment, and develop into a competitive shooter. In fact if the aim is to become competitive, I believe this is a better approach (buy modern, competitive equipment and invest time learning to use it) than going through the process of having to learn the sport from the ground up.

My thinking is that starting out, its better to invest time on the bench and at matches learning to use equipment made to the formula, then to understand the sport at the outset. Learning the basics of BR is not too difficult, but learning the nuances is a very long curve. There are a lot of myths circulating online (like BR shooters all use fitted necks, or neck size only, and max loads are never the most accurate), so I believe it can be very beneficial to read what some of the top shooters today are advocating. I certainly did not mean to suggest (and dont think I said) dont read the books the OP mentioned, just that they give a distorted view of what is winning in BR shooting today if that is all a new shooter reads.

For the record, I have enjoyed reading books on BR back to the late 1940s – I just wouldn’t start a newcomer on those.

 

[alinwa]

Hi David

Let me say here, I am not trying to convince anyone I am “right”, just explain my thinking behind the original post. I think in general terms, there are two types of competitors in BR today. One is a person who wants to win, the other is a person who wants to learn/innovate, and sees the competition circuit as a proving ground or simply an enjoyable way to spend their time and socialise. I am not suggesting one is any "better" or more worthy than the other, however my bias is towards being competitive first and foremost and that is where my answer was coming from.

As Charles has pointed out, there is a formula today for a competitive BR rifle and equipment. I believe it is possible to read the Boyer and Ratigan books, take them on "faith", buy equipment, and develop into a competitive shooter. In fact if the aim is to become competitive, I believe this is a better approach (buy modern, competitive equipment and invest time learning to use it) than going through the process of having to learn the sport from the ground up.

My thinking is that starting out, its better to invest time on the bench and at matches learning to use equipment made to the formula, then to understand the sport at the outset. Learning the basics of BR is not too difficult, but learning the nuances is a very long curve. There are a lot of myths circulating online (like BR shooters all use fitted necks, or neck size only, and max loads are never the most accurate), so I believe it can be very beneficial to read what some of the top shooters today are advocating. I certainly did not mean to suggest (and dont think I said) dont read the books the OP mentioned, just that they give a distorted view of what is winning in BR shooting today if that is all a new shooter reads.

For the record, I have enjoyed reading books on BR back to the late 1940s – I just wouldn’t start a newcomer on those.

FWIW I'll back this up.... GOOD POST!

You gotta' choose;

-Do you want to play and learn???

-Or do you want to WIN?

I have a friend who know essentially nothing about guns. He has no interest. But he's a gamer, a competitor competing successfully in a number of venues. He gave me a blank check one time and I ordered us up a couple BR rifles from Borden's Accuracy. He had Jim set up EVERYTHING from the dies to the powder thrower to the rest/bag setup, powder and bullets so that when he opened the box AT A RANGE he was able to unpack the stuff and shoot.

Which he did.

We met Jim at the 2000 IBS BR School to get our stuff and here he is with this gorgeous rifle and setup and people would come by to check it out and ask him stuff, and he'd just point to Jim or me, "I don't know, go ask them."

He still knows nothing about his rifle.

But he can SHOOT.... he can compete, a lot better than me. (Which ain't sayin' much) but the point is, he chose the road of competition not experimentation.