Full Length Sizing

P

Propdoc03

Guest
Okay, this has probably been beaten to death, but are some of you full length sizing? I have a rig that is giving me fits by not wanting to chamber after only the second firing, some on the first are stiff, and a bump die only makes things worse.

I can not detect anything by measuring the fired cases against the virgin brass that seems out of specs..

At this point I am thinking about purchasing a FL bushing die and shoot. Hopefully that will fix my problem.

Chamber is a 284 Winchester with a .315 neck and Lapua brass. .003 neck tension, .003 clearance on my cleaned up necks. Using a Redding Type-S neck bushing die and a Redding Bump die.

It almost seams like the bump die does not match the chamber?

You can see in the attached image, looks like something funny is going on right at the shoulder.

Any thoughts???

Thanks,
Dennis
 

Attachments

  • 284.jpg
    284.jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 252
Dennis

It will take more than a casual look at your photos, but I suspect that your problem is the result of shoulder bumping. When you bump the shoulder there is tendancy for the case body to bulge out with the result that the case is now even tighter than it was before.

If you have a combination body size and shoulder bump die it will require careful adjustment to get the right result. If you use seperate body and bump dies you will have to do some experimenting with your procedures to get the results you want.

Bumping will tend to bulge the body of the case while body sizing will tend to squeeze the shoulder forward. A vicious circle, Eh? :rolleyes:;)

Ray
 
Thanks Ray. I may have mislead you with my earlier post. I actually have a body die, not a bump die, if there is a difference? I am ending up having to run it all the way in until it bottoms out on my shell holder. I still have a little resistance to fully close the bolt and also when it first starts to cam over. Once it passes that point the bolt drops easily. This is all with my firing pin removed on my 700 Remington.

I do not know if that is good, bad, or ugly, maybe all three :rolleyes:
I am now wondering if it is good meaning that the body die actually fits my chamber well and I will not be overworking my brass by running it through there every first or second firing?

On a good note. I made my first match in, well I do not remember the last time. Had a great time talking with everyone and thoroughly enjoyed shooting again. Did not do half bad either :D

tillroot1 shot an awesome group!

Thanks again,
Dennis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Propdoc3

Dennis grind down your shellholder or grind off the bottom of your die so you can get more range out of it.
That Tillroot1 guy has been shooting very well lately.I suspect he has been hanging around with the NBRSA Shooter Of The Year and getting good advice.I will let you know how he does on sunday.
Lynn
 
Smoke it

Try smoking the shoulder and neck with a bic lighter. You may not be getting to the shoulder. You also may need a Small base die.

Good Shooting

Greg
 
or since the gun was built to shoot long range br, maybe the reamer was not saami spec......maybe a couple fired cases sent to redding, or gunsmith and dies made to fit the chamber.

having said all that, i too am looking at a 284 win for long range, tell us more about yours and what you are shooting.

thanks
mike in co
 
Lynn, Dennis snuck up from behind and tricked us all, sizing issues and all, and shot well, first time to a match for a new rig and shot third overall. We had lightning,thunder,lightning caused fires and even a little hail. wind from 14 different directions sometimes 12 at a time! I got VERY lucky and had a good target, it will hang on the wall, probably for a very long time. It was a keeper of a group. I will see you guys in the morning if I can find my way there, with I-5 closed, I do not even know the route to take for sure, so don't let um start with out me. Ron
 
Ron

Well look at the bright side. At least the sun wasn't in your eyes. And Ed E wasn't giving you a bad bench and relay assignment like he always did to me. :D ;);)

How small was that group, BTW?

Ray
 
Cheechako said:
Ron

Well look at the bright side. At least the sun wasn't in your eyes. And Ed E wasn't giving you a bad bench and relay assignment like he always did to me. :D ;);)

How small was that group, BTW?

Ray
Click to expand...

Hi Ray, this was my clubs last shoot for the summer because of the fire danger until the fall. I ran the match today so I assigned myself the bad bench assignment and got lucky. The group measured at the match was 2.854" light gun. Tomorrow I am going to Sac to shoot 600 with the new match director Craig and plan to bring soda's and breakfast and whatever else it takes to get on his good side. Think it will work?????????? take care, Ron Tilley
 
what chamber...

Just kinda thinkin out loud...culd it be a Winchester chamber....they are smaller at the .200 line than the Lapua/Norma version....no matter what u do if the dies only size em to the Norma spec.. the win. chamber will be too tite...hope this helps...Roger

Congrats. to Ron Tilly on another good group.....
 
expiper said:
Just kinda thinkin out loud...culd it be a Winchester chamber....they are smaller at the .200 line than the Lapua/Norma version....no matter what u do if the dies only size em to the Norma spec.. the win. chamber will be too tite...hope this helps...Roger

Congrats. to Ron Tilly on another good group.....
Click to expand...

Very smart thinking Roger, that never even entered our minds. I bet thats it. Ron Tilley
 
Dont ask how I know.,,,hahaha

One of my shootin buddies here in the hills has a good shootin 6.5 x 284 that is chambered with a old style win. reamer ....it was done before the good Lapua brass became available.....he has a die that fits his particular brass/chamber/reamer and uses Winchester brand brass,,since everything fits he has NO problems with sizing or loose primer pokets.....
It drove us nuts trying to figger out how to reload for it!!!!!!!!!....just a cupla hillbillys with a hammer and a file,,,,Roger
 
Roger

Yeah, that might be it. I guess all those sal-ammoniac fumes didn't affect you as much as we thought. ;)

For some reason I thought Dennis was referring to a problem at the shoulder diameter rather than the base.

Dennis??

I used to have a wildcat using that old Winchester brass and when the new stuff came out I decided to $hit-can the barrel rather than re chamber it. That was years ago and I STILL hate that Winchester brass.

Ron

Any group under 3 inches is a good one IMHO. Considering the weather, the bad bench and the Range Officer, it's outstanding. :eek:

I hear that Craig can be bribed. Maybe not with food though, considering his culinary talents.

Ray
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Guys thanks for all of the great input! The weather at todays shoot was interesting to say the least. During one of my strings the closest flag was blowing east and one up close to the target was blowing west. Ron had the pleasure of shooting during a little rain and quite a bit of lightening.

Roger, I am a little foggy by what you meant when you said they are smaller at the .200 line, do you meant .200 up from the base?

The virgin Lapua brass at the web measures .498 and chambers easily. The fired brass measures .499 at the web. My virgin Winchester brass measures .493 at the web.

It may have just been the Rookie behind the wheel. Ron suggested that I measure the shoulder, I did at about midpoint with my headspace gauge, and it looks like they do not get bumped until the die is just kissing the shell holder. This bumped it .0015 and it chambers fine.

Dennis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dennis

The old Winchester 284 brass was very inconsistent from lot to lot but if you stuck to one batch it was not too bad. The "book" said that the base spec was .500" and a lot of shooters chambered their rifles with a .501 or .502 base. What usually happened was loose primer pockets because some of the brass actually was a small as .490.

But us Benchresters like tight butts so we had our rifles chambered to fit the brass. When the new Lapua finally reached our shores we were so happy that we skipped around in circles like little kids until we found out that it wouldn't chamber in our rifles because it had a base close to the real .500. So most of us got new reamers and re-chambered. Not me though, as I said before.

Now you know the rest of the story.

Ray
 
Thanks Ray. So it sounds like the reamer they used is the larger one which does work well with the Lapua, is that correct? The virgin Lapua measures .498 and comes out at .499. Sounds like if I do use the Winchester which measures .493 I might end up with loose pockets??

I was confused by the body/shoulder bump die. I was thinking I had the bump die and would not have to adjust it all they way down. As it is now I am adjusted all the way down. Luckily that gives me just enough shoulder bump to where my brass will work. Hopefully it is not overworking the rest of the body??

Dennis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Propdoc03 said:
Thanks Ray. So it sounds like the reamer they used is the larger one which does work well with the Lapua, is that correct? The virgin Lapua measures .498 and comes out at .499. Sounds like if I do use the Winchester which measures .493 I might end up with loose pockets??

I was confused by the body/shoulder bump die. I was thinking I had the bump die and would not have to adjust it all they way down. As it is now I am adjusted all the way down. Luckily that gives me just enough shoulder bump to where my brass will work. Hopefully it is not overworking the rest of the body??

Dennis
Click to expand...

Dennis, all you have to do is measure your brass before and after sizing it, and set your die up to make where you want it. you may consider getting a type s full length bushing die, I think you would like it best. Ron
 
Tillroot1

Ron a 2.8XX at 1,000 is a great group! If your shooting that good I guess Craig can put you on any bench.Get yourself a screamer patch to hang with te target.Nice shooting!
Lynn
 
Thanks Ron. The full length die does sound like the way to go. The way it is now, my body die does not give me any adjustment. I have to crank it all the way down and barely get enough sizing to where it will work in my chamber. At least it would save me time, which seems to be a rare commodity anymore, from having to run it through two dies.

Right now I am working the shoulder .004 each time.

Dennis
 
Any thoughts on sending some fired brass into Herrel and having a FL bushing die made. Is working the shoulder .004 excessive? Other than the should the rest is not being overworked.

thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top