Front rest windage options????

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skeetlee

Active member
Fellas here is what i have on my mind today. LOL!!! I am thinking about parting ways with my JJ front rest to go with a new Sinclair front rest. There are some things about the JJ i dont like but there is also things i do like. The one main thing i do really like is the windage control. As you already know the windage moves the rest side to side. I think that is a good thing. The new Sinclair has a pivoting action instead of the side to side movement. Is that a bad thing? Will the rifle get into a bind. I have been told the importance of having the rear bag lined up properly with the front rest. if the windage pivots it has to create a binding effect correct? I think my JJ rest is to light, other wise i would hang on to it. The new Sinclair looks to be a dandy rest but i am not so sure about the windage control. You fellas have more experience with these kinds of things than i do, so i thought this might make a good discussion. any thoughts on this subject? Thanks fellas! Lee
 
Lee,
If I seriously doubt that your JJ rest is too light...lighter than the new Sinclair, yes, too light, I doubt it. I have seen too many excellent groups shot off of them. On the other hand, if you prefer the location of the windage control knob on the Sinclair, that, I can understand (as if what I understand really matters:) As far as binding goes, if your bags are lined up properly neither will pose a problem.

Some time ago, when this whole subject of the potential of certain windage top designs causing binding came up, there was some thought that the early Sinclair design that has its pivot a short distance in front of the bag had a problem, whereupon Bart Sauter posted that he had used one for a couple of years with no problem. Some things that seem like they might be a problem simply are not. Spending money to fix something that isn't broke is for guys that are bored and have have a bigger budget than mine. Have fun.
Boyd
 
No money burning holes in these pockets, that s for sure. I would have to sell a rest to buy a rest.
I have actually moved my rest by simply bumping the front rifle stop post with the rifle. The aluminum bottom is in my experience to light. I have thought about mounting the rest on a piece of metal, but i am just not sure who i can have do this work for me, without big shipping costs. I have also had a couple of incidence's were i couldnt get the rest height enough to reach the target, so maybe a plate would be the best idea?? As far as function, i love the JJ i have, i just wish it had a steel plate instead of aluminium. You are correct Boyd there has been some fantastic scores shot while using these rest, as i have done it myself. I will just hang tight for now but i am going to have to figure out a way to make this rest heavier!! Lee
 
In the past Don Nielson has made some fancy rest feet, for a reasonable price. I think that he even engraved your name on them.
 
I answered a similar post on 6mmbr.com, but I think some more detail is needed. There is no way to avoid binding in any design of windage rest, ESPECIALLY in a design that moves directly side to side.

Pivoting behind the front bag moves the forend in an arc (a short section of a circle), virtually eliminating the binding in the front bag, BUT it still is going to bind in the rear bag. That being said, the side-to-side rest binds the stock in both the front and the rear because all 4 bag ears are parallel to each other (in theory). If the stock starts out perpendicular to the ears (which again in theory it should be, but in reality it's close but probably not perfect) now move that front bag straight side to side, does the rear bag move side to side with it or does it remain stationary? We all know that it stays stationary, but now the stock is no longer perpendicular to either the front or rear bag causing irregularities in the tension exerted by the bag ears on the sides of the stock, this is the definition of binding.

The "co-axial" rests move side-to-side also, and as has been discussed previous, the old Sinclair pivots in front of the front bag (technically this may be the most binding design). The bottom line, and what we should all get out of this entire conversation is exactly what Bart Sauter and everyone who's ever shot off multiple styles of rests should already understand... It really doesn't matter that it binds. The reason that it doesn't matter is that we're not moving the system a large enough distance to cause enough binding to interfere with the movement of the stock during recoil. Anyone who tells you different probably hasn't shot off enough different styles of rests to really know.
 
GPat summed up exactly what I was going to say, only with better grammar and English.

The small amount that the front bag is offset using any system should be of no concern. If you need to crank it over to its extreme limits (or beyond) you probably have bigger problems (wind) to deal with. For years, shooters accomodated the small windage adjustments with the rear bag only and never seemed to be concerned about binding. It's only since the widespread use of adjustable front rests, and the Internet, that things have become complicated.

JMHO

Ray
 
Goodgrouper

Think about it this way. At point blank ranges you are going to be moving your front rest how much? 2 or 3 minutes of angle maximum? That's not enough to be of concern, IMHO.

I know that you shoot long range where you may have to move the front rest a lot more, maybe even as much as all the way over onto the next target board. But, like I said before, when you are moving things around that much you have more serious things to be concerned about than binding. (Come to think of it, binding is a problem when you are shooting that far off. The pucker factor becomes very high and binding in your colon and rectal muscles will be worse than the binding in your rest. ) ;) ;)

Ray
 
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goodgrouper said:
I disagree. Binding is a problem. Especially with certain kinds of stocks with free recoil. That is why we use powder, tape or stock wax to help smooth out whatever small amounts of binding are being produced by any rest. Also, the pivot in the rear bag can be mostly offset by the fact that the rear ears are usually not as tight around the stock as the front bag is.
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I think what he is saying is if your bags are correctly centered and the windage rest is centered, the tiny amount of movement does not pose a binding issue. I agree. I have the new Sinclair and I don't have any binding issues at all. Now if I wanted to move to the extreme left or right, it will put more tension on the stock if you don't adjust the side plates. But who would want to do that anyhow? I make sure I'm centered so my windage adjustment is small.
 
there has been some good points of view discussed and i appreciate all of them. I think the first thing i will try are the super feet. I will order some when i get home. I like the JJ rest for the most part, and i would like to hang on to it. I do feel that it needs some weight but who knows maybe these discs on the feet will make it more stable? I sure hope so. The rest is super smooth mand a true work of art. there is a ton of detail and care that went into making this rest.
I have though many times about a togle type front rest as i do think it would help me shoot a bit faster. My ammo box is always in my way when feeding a left port rifle. I probably need one of those speed feeds or something similar. If i do ever try a togle rest i think i will go with the shgade tree. Butch is a super fella and i know he takes pride in his work. Matter of fact, if i ever see a nice used one and i have the cash i will buy it. But i will have to find a base as well. The farleys seem nice as well. Bootom line here i guess is that all the different ype windage systems have there plusses and minuses. I like my JJ rest, but i wish it were heavier. will order some super feet and go from there. Thanks for the conversation as i always appreciate it very much!! Lee Sorry fellas no spell check on my phone, and i am the worlds worst speller!! LOL!! Lee
 
Lee, JJ makes a riser block for your rest to get you up another inch. I think its an inch. Anyhow, give him a call. I also saw stainless steel based JJ's. Not sure if he makes a SS base or they were made by someone else. Worth a call...I like the JJ's...I've had one on BO for months and the Sinclair rest came about and that is how I ended up with the Sinclair. After using it, I think I'll have it for a long time!
 
Thanks for the info. You know i hate making these kinds of choices. I am taking my shooting very seriously, and money while raising a family is so darn tight. I like my JJ but i cant keep but wondering if i would like a coax rest better, or a heavier rest better. I dont even know for a fact that my lite rest is a problem. I have tipped it a few times while pushing the rifle back forward, but i simply adjusted back to target. I am also always fighting the position of my ammo box while reaching for the vertical adjustment and windage while shooting a left port action, which now all my rifles are.
The new Sinclair has the windage closer to the shooter, and i think thats a good thing. the shade tree has the google and its even closer to the shooter (Me) and i think thats a good thing. I just dont have the kind of money to buy different rests to see what i like best. I am sure i could use or try the different rests while at a shoot, but in reality there isnt any free time to do so.At least not so far. I dont think switching set ups in the middle of the shooting season is the best idea either, so i am going to order the super feet and stick with the jj for now. Like i said before, if i ever run across a shade tree at a good price and i have the cash i will probably try one. I like Butch as he has been really good to me, and i am more than sure his product is fantastic. I have had a couple offers from different fellas to trade me there seb for my jj and one fella wanting to trade his Farley for my jj but i just cant bring myself to do this. To be real honest it makes me wonder why they want to get rid of them? I just want the best equipment i can afford that fits my needs the most, and right now thats the jj. It truly is a work of art, and very smooth and precise! I just wish it were a bit heavier, and i also wish i could find a loading block that i could mount to it, so i didnt have to fight the ammo box on the left side of the rifle. I really thought the left port was the way to go but i am not so sure i will buy another. Like i say fellas, i am passionate about my shooting as i always have been, this is still a pretty new sport for me, and i want to do the best i possably can, in the most efficient way. Thanks for the conversation, i enjoy your company! Lee
 
FBecigneul said:
GPat and Ray are right but the one thing that is most important is that you start out on the right foot. When you place your front rest on the bench, crouch down and sight along the rear leg or foot and the front rest bag. Ascertain that you are starting out right and make sure the moving part of the windage top is near center of travel and near center of target. Next place the rear bag on the bench and again sight from the rear bag, over the front rest, and be sure you are near the center of the target. I've seen too many people plop the front rest and rear bag on the bench and call that close enough. You don't traverse so far on a target that you create a serious bind. Oh, and don't hard pinch the fore end in the front bag with the side wings. Snug is warm and fuzzy.
Click to expand...

Here are some more thoughts along those same lines from 6mmBr.com:

1. Align Front Rest and Rear Bags. We see many shooters whose rear bag is angled left or right relative to the bore axis. This can happen when you rush your set-up. But even if you set the gun up carefully, the rear bag can twist due to recoil or the way your arm contacts the bag. After every shot, make sure your rear bag is aligned properly (this is especially important for bag squeezers who may actually pull the bag out of alignment as they squeeze).

Forum member ArtB [abintx], that's me, adds: “To align my front rest and rear bag with the target, I use an old golf club shaft. I run it from my front rest stop through a line that crosses over my speed screw and into the slot between the two ears. I stand behind that set-up and make sure I see a straight line pointing at the target. I also tape a spot on the golf shaft that indicates how far the back end of the rear bag should be placed from the front rest stop. If you don’t have a golf shaft, use a wood dowel."
 
out of pure curiosity, when will a fella be able to get there hands on the new SEB rest? Are the older versions better than a farley coax II or are they about the same? I am looking for a base with a wheel now and i will save some pennies and try one of the shade tree tops, that way i dont have to sell my JJ. The shade tree looks like a heck of a rest for the money, and i think it will be the best bet for me, If i find that i really like a co ax type rest, i will sell my JJ. i really enjoy varmint for score and i can see the benefit of a coax rest for that game. I make all my major up and down movements with the wheel on my jj and i have forgotten to tighten the wheel back down a time or two. that hurts!!
if anyone here has a bottom with a wheel i would like to try and purchase it, if you can part with it that is. Thanks Lee
 
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Skeet--- Any particular reason you feel you must use a windage adjustable rest? Have you ever tried shooting by simply squeezing the rear bag. If you look at the notables in BR, there is quite a few that do very well with the K.I.S.S set-up.
 
LHSmith
I have tried to squeeze the rear bag, but my build seems to hinder this style. My shoulders are pretty broad, and my arms are fairly large in diameter, plus a little short and i just dont feel like i can get all up into the rifle to do this properly, plus i may not have the correct rear bag to do so. My edge-wood bag is kinda unique. (I will take a pic of it and post it here) I have never seen another like it anywhere. I think it is a free recoil type rear bag. I am open to change though!! I am getting ready to head out for the range here in just a few minutes and i will try a couple different things. Thanks Lee

mybag004.jpg


anyone know what bag i have hear? Should i not use this bag? Lee
 
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skeet

skeet,
I beleive you have a bag made expressly for lester Brunos called a "Super bag" and made by Edgewood. If you look on his website you may find it under "Edgewood". I have a really wide stock and wondered how wide the ears were on the Super bag so if you would be so kind to measure and let me know how far apart the ears are near the bottom of the ears I would really appreciate it.
thanks.
 
I come up with 3/8" wide on the double stitched bottom. I looked on edgewoods site and i dont see them. Are these no longer made? I like the bag but i dont think you could squeeze this bag. No room under the rifle. also fellas is it bad to have your rifle resting on the top of the bag? Someone once told me it would cause vertical? I havent experienced that myself, but what do i know!! Lee
 
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