Forming 30x47 brass for HBR
- Thread starter Bnhpr
- Start date
Eddie Harren
Member
A tapered expander mandrel and die body worked for me.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
K & M makes a very nice mandrel for this purpose , actually I use it to go from 6mm to 30 all the time. Whole setup costs something like $13.
Pete,
nope.
unless it's cold outside and I want to fire out the window, then I stuff a little Kleenex into the mouth of the case so that I can lay it down. Zero difference in effect and yes I did test this and advise everyone to do the same...... DROP THE CHARGE maybe 2-3 grains and try the wad of kleenex. One man's "wad" may be different than my 1/2" square pinched off between thumb and forefinger. This is LOUD and there is some recoil and you can only do about 10rds before you let the barrel cool. I just load up a block of cases and set them where I'm shooting and then as I putter around I'll wander over and fire 10rds every 15-20 minutes. This is probably being too careful but I figger I've got time.
The difference between this method and the mandrel method is astonishing. In fact, I wish I could find an equally effective way to neck DOWN! (To those who know, that tells you how good it is)
One thing..... your brass grows in length, you MUST check to see if you're hitting the end of the neck with your brass (it'll show as a taper or ring on the casemouth) and trim accordingly. I use a dedicated barrel for this because I like to keep my gapspace at under 5 thou. The ends of the cases are a tiny bit ragged or scalloped as they map out the thickness of the neck.....
IF your chamber is short enough that the brass hits the leade it can dent the lands.
This method is completely safe and doesn't waste a bullet or goober the rifling.
al
nope.
unless it's cold outside and I want to fire out the window, then I stuff a little Kleenex into the mouth of the case so that I can lay it down. Zero difference in effect and yes I did test this and advise everyone to do the same...... DROP THE CHARGE maybe 2-3 grains and try the wad of kleenex. One man's "wad" may be different than my 1/2" square pinched off between thumb and forefinger. This is LOUD and there is some recoil and you can only do about 10rds before you let the barrel cool. I just load up a block of cases and set them where I'm shooting and then as I putter around I'll wander over and fire 10rds every 15-20 minutes. This is probably being too careful but I figger I've got time.
The difference between this method and the mandrel method is astonishing. In fact, I wish I could find an equally effective way to neck DOWN! (To those who know, that tells you how good it is)
One thing..... your brass grows in length, you MUST check to see if you're hitting the end of the neck with your brass (it'll show as a taper or ring on the casemouth) and trim accordingly. I use a dedicated barrel for this because I like to keep my gapspace at under 5 thou. The ends of the cases are a tiny bit ragged or scalloped as they map out the thickness of the neck.....
IF your chamber is short enough that the brass hits the leade it can dent the lands.
This method is completely safe and doesn't waste a bullet or goober the rifling.
al
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Al,
When you use Clays, do you use the kleenex or just leave it open? How much Clays do you use?
Adrian
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
For a 30 PPC...
I use Red Dot, 1/2 case full, and a junk 55 grain .224 on top. This goes into a crapped out 6mm barrel that has a 30PPC chamber in it. That gets fired into a bullet trap and the cases are almost formed all the way to the end of the neck. Run in a 30 expanding mandrel and start turning.
For a 6.5x47 to 30 x47 I would use what ever shotgun powder you have handy and a kleenex plug capped w/ wax in your 30x47 chamber. That will give you the closest to final case and not push back on the case because you are running an expander in right off the bat. You will still need to expand up after you fire it as your case walls are too thick till you turn them, but you won't get shoulder push-back, or at least not as much, as if you had expanded all the way w/ mandrels
Sorry for the convoluted explanation, but there is NO direct method that does not have complications
David
I use Red Dot, 1/2 case full, and a junk 55 grain .224 on top. This goes into a crapped out 6mm barrel that has a 30PPC chamber in it. That gets fired into a bullet trap and the cases are almost formed all the way to the end of the neck. Run in a 30 expanding mandrel and start turning.
For a 6.5x47 to 30 x47 I would use what ever shotgun powder you have handy and a kleenex plug capped w/ wax in your 30x47 chamber. That will give you the closest to final case and not push back on the case because you are running an expander in right off the bat. You will still need to expand up after you fire it as your case walls are too thick till you turn them, but you won't get shoulder push-back, or at least not as much, as if you had expanded all the way w/ mandrels
Sorry for the convoluted explanation, but there is NO direct method that does not have complications
David
Ok, here goes 
FIRST of all, I have all of my rifles short-chambered so that they will never accept a virgin case. To chamber them I must bump the shoulder a couple thou.
I bump the shoulders on a set of cases such that they're a tight crush-fit on a given day.
I GREASE MY LUGS!
Then I take out 10 cases that I expect to just lose, throw away, use for varmint rounds or setup. This decision must be made I WILL essentially ruin some cases here.......not actually "ruin" but you'll see from the pictures.
I then go to the powder magazine and grab up some SHOTGUN powder, for the cases pictured I used WW SuperLite because I had a couple kegs. I DO NOT try to find just the fastest, stingiest powder on the shelf. Shotgun powder works well for me, it's less violent than pistol powder and seems to yield more consistent results.
I'm also convinced from experience that it's SAFE, the bulk used makes it extremely repeatable.
I start VERY LOW, like 1/3 case full but still a thrown charge.
I get out my ringbound tablet (I keep a large stack of them on hand) I use a tablet that is ringbound so that it lays flat, this allows me to keep lots of notes easily. I buy notebooks that have ringbinder holes and a serrated rip-strip so that the sheets rip off clean and the ones that I save just get filed to the appropriate binder. This all may seem like overkill but remember I AM The Safety Geek........WRITE STUFF DOWN!
My pix aren't great but hopefully your monitor will allow you to see some detail. If not I'll try to go down and get some better pix, with a tripod.
In this particular workup I started with 40 clicks on my Harrell's (40K) and ran up to 70 clicks. (70K) I started at 40K cuz this wasn't my first go-round with this powder. This is 6.5X47 to 30X47.
I've included closeups of 40K and 70K.
In this workup I threw the 40K charge, walked out into the yard and holding it up over my head I fired straight up into the air, WITH earmuffs on.
40K is "pfump"
50K is "PfUMP!"
60K is "WAKK!"
70K is "K'WAKKK!" and as you can see by the lines on the fired case it very closely approximates a nice firm conventional load.
Once I've found the desired load I just load the block with cases, carry it out into the yard, sit down on the grass and fire them straight up into the air over my head.....with the rifle held at arms length. WEAR HEARING PROTECTION!!!! While these don't recoil much due to the light wt of the "projectile" they are NOT harmless, you will feel a decided thump upon your bean...
Check your barrel for heat if you value it. I can normally go about ten rounds. I've been told by folks smarter than me that this method does wear on your barrel about the same as your conventional loads.
The results though are special.
If it's cold out I will fire out the winder because I can. The muzzle flash is wicked.......close your eyes. I use JUST A TINY PINCH of kleenex in the neck and I carefully insert my rounds all same-same. I don't feel that a pinch of kleenex builds any pressure but I'd not just cram a wad in there willy-nilly.
I like this way better than COW altho I still keep a box handy. Maybe someday I'll get hungry. I'm not completely convinced that a box of Cream-O-Wheat doesn't take on moisture over time nor that it doesn't lump up or pack differently shot to shot. Ken Howell swears by it and he's formed many times more cases than me but I've had better luck with straight powder.
I've used pistol powder with wax, with and without COW and haven't found reason to put COW over the shotgun powder, just cuz......... others can certainly try it.
This I know from experience works easy.
If you look closely at the neck of the closeup 70K you'll see the slant. Lapua brass. Other brands are much more raggedy. Some of them scallop.
I've never split a neck, even going up from 22 to 30
I've never weighed my charges..........yet
al
FIRST of all, I have all of my rifles short-chambered so that they will never accept a virgin case. To chamber them I must bump the shoulder a couple thou.
I bump the shoulders on a set of cases such that they're a tight crush-fit on a given day.
I GREASE MY LUGS!
Then I take out 10 cases that I expect to just lose, throw away, use for varmint rounds or setup. This decision must be made
I WILL essentially ruin some cases here.......not actually "ruin" but you'll see from the pictures.I then go to the powder magazine and grab up some SHOTGUN powder, for the cases pictured I used WW SuperLite because I had a couple kegs. I DO NOT try to find just the fastest, stingiest powder on the shelf. Shotgun powder works well for me, it's less violent than pistol powder and seems to yield more consistent results.
I'm also convinced from experience that it's SAFE, the bulk used makes it extremely repeatable.
I start VERY LOW, like 1/3 case full but still a thrown charge.
I get out my ringbound tablet (I keep a large stack of them on hand) I use a tablet that is ringbound so that it lays flat, this allows me to keep lots of notes easily. I buy notebooks that have ringbinder holes and a serrated rip-strip so that the sheets rip off clean and the ones that I save just get filed to the appropriate binder. This all may seem like overkill but remember I AM The Safety Geek........WRITE STUFF DOWN!
My pix aren't great but hopefully your monitor will allow you to see some detail. If not I'll try to go down and get some better pix, with a tripod.
In this particular workup I started with 40 clicks on my Harrell's (40K) and ran up to 70 clicks. (70K) I started at 40K cuz this wasn't my first go-round with this powder. This is 6.5X47 to 30X47.
I've included closeups of 40K and 70K.
In this workup I threw the 40K charge, walked out into the yard and holding it up over my head I fired straight up into the air, WITH earmuffs on.
40K is "pfump"
50K is "PfUMP!"
60K is "WAKK!"
70K is "K'WAKKK!" and as you can see by the lines on the fired case it very closely approximates a nice firm conventional load.
Once I've found the desired load I just load the block with cases, carry it out into the yard, sit down on the grass and fire them straight up into the air over my head.....with the rifle held at arms length. WEAR HEARING PROTECTION!!!! While these don't recoil much due to the light wt of the "projectile" they are NOT harmless, you will feel a decided thump upon your bean...
Check your barrel for heat if you value it. I can normally go about ten rounds. I've been told by folks smarter than me that this method does wear on your barrel about the same as your conventional loads.
The results though are special.
If it's cold out I will fire out the winder because I can. The muzzle flash is wicked.......close your eyes. I use JUST A TINY PINCH of kleenex in the neck and I carefully insert my rounds all same-same. I don't feel that a pinch of kleenex builds any pressure but I'd not just cram a wad in there willy-nilly.
I like this way better than COW altho I still keep a box handy. Maybe someday I'll get hungry. I'm not completely convinced that a box of Cream-O-Wheat doesn't take on moisture over time nor that it doesn't lump up or pack differently shot to shot. Ken Howell swears by it and he's formed many times more cases than me but I've had better luck with straight powder.
I've used pistol powder with wax, with and without COW and haven't found reason to put COW over the shotgun powder, just cuz......... others can certainly try it.
This I know from experience works easy.
If you look closely at the neck of the closeup 70K you'll see the slant. Lapua brass. Other brands are much more raggedy. Some of them scallop.
I've never split a neck, even going up from 22 to 30
I've never weighed my charges..........yet
al
Attachments
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Way back, cast lead shooters used to fill their loads based on red & green dot with COW, but stopped the process when somebody proved some deleterious consequence to the bore, but damned if I can remember what.
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
That would be the best
time investment you could make. The fireform barrel will last your lifetime and then some. And NO wear on the HOF barrel you will be shooting in matches.
BTW, I would NOT make it shorter than your competition barrel. Make it EXACTLY the same so you fireform right to the proper. Why stretch the brass again when you put it in the real thing. If you are going for a difference, it should be longer in the fireform so it jam fits in the final chamber..
time investment you could make. The fireform barrel will last your lifetime and then some. And NO wear on the HOF barrel you will be shooting in matches.
BTW, I would NOT make it shorter than your competition barrel. Make it EXACTLY the same so you fireform right to the proper. Why stretch the brass again when you put it in the real thing. If you are going for a difference, it should be longer in the fireform so it jam fits in the final chamber..
David is right, I would err towards LONG instead of short on the fireform barrel. What I meant is that I chamber ALL of my guns short so that I never have to fight to make a crush fit. None of my competition firearms will accept any sort of factory case. In future you may want to consider this, but this fireform barrel should just be SAME to a teeeny bit longer than your comp barrels. It's a small matter to face it down another day if you decide to do the tighten-up later on......
al