Flavio Fare' Triggers
- Thread starter tonykharper
- Start date
tonykharper
Well-known member
Wilbur,
No, I bought four of these triggers. I've only been working with two of them.
TKH
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Is that important?
It is likely someone will make something as good with some of these improvements @ less money at some point. R&D costs and it's important to have folks make new things that work better, IMHO. I have owned a number of Shilen triggers over the years and always felt they worked as well as Jewells, mebby better. Never seen one of em fail @ a match vs Jewells. I have seen 14 to date of them fail @ matches.
Pete
It is likely someone will make something as good with some of these improvements @ less money at some point. R&D costs and it's important to have folks make new things that work better, IMHO. I have owned a number of Shilen triggers over the years and always felt they worked as well as Jewells, mebby better. Never seen one of em fail @ a match vs Jewells. I have seen 14 to date of them fail @ matches.
Pete
mwezell
Mike Ezell
By all means, I encourage..and am encouraged, when I see good quality new products for our niche market. I haven't seen a FF trigger in person yet, but I have a BnA in my hand, on a very nice Borden action. While it certainly feels like a quality trigger, I can't honestly see how it would appear in my scores, as it and the Jewell are both very light and of good quality. Pete, are you saying that youve witnessed 14 Jewell triggers fail, mechanically, for some reason other than misadjustment, debris and/or neglect..or are you counting those types of failures as well? Personally, I've never had a Jewell to fail that was properly adjusted and maintained. The point of my post is simple...How many more x's or how many thou from my agg will my scores improve if I buy one of the latest and greatest triggers? Kudos to these companies/people for producing a premium trigger, though. My question is honest and sincere. If it'll gain me even 1 x, I'll likely buy one.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Yes, fail
mostly it has been one of the levers breaking but lately it's been springs. There was one our last match ( a spring).
mostly it has been one of the levers breaking but lately it's been springs. There was one our last match ( a spring).
We've seen a couple failures, Mike. Mostly on the terminal ends of wound springs where they get bent 90deg.
The biggest issue now seems to be required detailing ( as per Jack Neary's posts) particularly on the side plates and larger pieces where drilled. it seems there are burrs all over.
That said, on another thread( it seems there are a couple threads in other forums) i asked about testing. The reason I did so was because early on when the B&A triggers showed up I had a couple pretty good conversations with Chris Harris and abbove beyond the point they they had beautiful machining and fewer moving parts, he'd indicated that in testing in Austria, their shot to shot repeatability dropping the sear bar was about 70% more consistant than our available options here. That was how I came to buy my first one and now others.
In living with the first for over a year, it sure feels better and I think it represents improvement but I cannot quantify it. It remains to be seen about these new units but, hell, gotta love the selection.
Boyd Allen
Active member
The most important feature of a trigger (for me) beyond reliability, is consistency. I don't set my triggers with a gauge, I use the gauge to find out what I have set them to by feel. It seems to me that letting the number make your decision is letting the tail wag the dog.
I own and have owned several different 2 oz. triggers, old Hart, early Shilen, Canjar, Jewel, and my latest, a Bn'A. The rifles go bang when I pull, or have pulled all of them, but in the not having to think about my trigger department, I would have to give the prize to the Bn'A.
When if first arrived, it was set at about 1 1/4 oz., lighter than my other triggers. (I am told that they will reliably work at under an ounce.) After shooting it for a while, I decided that the weight was a distraction (again, for me) changed the spring, and readjusted it to raise its pull weight slightly. After that, and a little readjustment period, I am pleased to report that I do not have to think about my trigger at all, which leaves me to concentrate on what wind flags are trying to tell me, in a language that I only sometimes slightly understand.
We seem to be in a golden age as far as equipment choices go. New actions, triggers, and barrel makers arrive on the scene, with amazing regularity. At this point, what I really need is a trigger that has an integrated lock that will not allow the rifle to discharge in the wrong condition. Until that becomes available, I think that I am pretty well set in the trigger department.
I own and have owned several different 2 oz. triggers, old Hart, early Shilen, Canjar, Jewel, and my latest, a Bn'A. The rifles go bang when I pull, or have pulled all of them, but in the not having to think about my trigger department, I would have to give the prize to the Bn'A.
When if first arrived, it was set at about 1 1/4 oz., lighter than my other triggers. (I am told that they will reliably work at under an ounce.) After shooting it for a while, I decided that the weight was a distraction (again, for me) changed the spring, and readjusted it to raise its pull weight slightly. After that, and a little readjustment period, I am pleased to report that I do not have to think about my trigger at all, which leaves me to concentrate on what wind flags are trying to tell me, in a language that I only sometimes slightly understand.
We seem to be in a golden age as far as equipment choices go. New actions, triggers, and barrel makers arrive on the scene, with amazing regularity. At this point, what I really need is a trigger that has an integrated lock that will not allow the rifle to discharge in the wrong condition. Until that becomes available, I think that I am pretty well set in the trigger department.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
I always enjoy reading your posts, Boyd. You are a gifted writer and better yet, a conversationalist. I OTOH, am just the opposite and sometimes come across more negatively than I mean to. To that end, I sincerely hope that no one takes me wrong in my posts here. I certainly applaud the trigger makers for producing a very fine product. In no way do I mean anything else.
Now that we have that clear..from the perspective of someone who has fired hundreds of thousands of rounds using a Jewell without any fault of the trigger, I'm simply asking how I can justify the extra monies for the higher priced trigger choices. I admit, and frequently do, polish the internals of a Jewell. This always yields a somewhat better and smoother "feel" to them. I've also seen it fix problems on others' triggers that bound up in the trigger hanger...etc. It's a simple process that I'm quite comfortable with doing. If the newer triggers simply are more consistent dimensionally, allowing for proper timing of our fine custom actions as received without the need for timing the amount of fall and handoff, that would be a substantial benefit. I can say from firsthand experience, proper fall amount with a given ignition system is of benefit to accuracy. Too little fall or marginal ignition will drive you nuts!
All of that said, do the new triggers address and correct these issues, and/or otherwise improve accuracy in some way. I admit, the BnA feels nice and solid...but will it help my scores?
Pete Wass
Well-known member
The trigger timing issue:
Great points Mike, particularly the trigger timing issue. I borrowed a friend's Annie this past weekend. I noticed that the bolt was closing real hard. Took the gun out of the stock and was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of adjustment latitude with both the action (Long trigger slot) and slotted trigger group screw holes. Trigger timing was a snap, top say the least. Why can't all actions be made this way, to eliminate the trigger timing issue? So it would add 1/4" to the OAL of an action; well worth the tradeoff, IMHO.
Pete
Great points Mike, particularly the trigger timing issue. I borrowed a friend's Annie this past weekend. I noticed that the bolt was closing real hard. Took the gun out of the stock and was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of adjustment latitude with both the action (Long trigger slot) and slotted trigger group screw holes. Trigger timing was a snap, top say the least. Why can't all actions be made this way, to eliminate the trigger timing issue? So it would add 1/4" to the OAL of an action; well worth the tradeoff, IMHO.
Pete
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mwezell
Mike Ezell
Good question! In all honesty though, they're probably better as shipped, triggers too, than after the vast majority mess with them. Fool proof is tough to do.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Welll
This one is a "Custom" Sporter that has been "Massaged" some but the point is the built in adjustability. Whomever set the trigger timing in that one didn't understand spring bind, I don't think. I have a BAT B that has very little adjustability and a questionable pin fall. BAT told me I couldn't adjust it any more than 1/4 turn. Poor head work, In my opinion.
Pete
This one is a "Custom" Sporter that has been "Massaged" some but the point is the built in adjustability. Whomever set the trigger timing in that one didn't understand spring bind, I don't think. I have a BAT B that has very little adjustability and a questionable pin fall. BAT told me I couldn't adjust it any more than 1/4 turn. Poor head work, In my opinion.
Pete
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Mike makes a good point...actually it's a little more than a good point.
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I returned to rebut that stuff I wrote above the line. After some thought, I realized that I don't know anything about triggers at all except when you pull it the rifle shoots. There are thousands of rifles built to win that fall short of the mark and I don't know whats wrong. Could easily be the trigger in some cases! One incident sticks out and I can't get rid of it. A well known centerfire shooter, one that wins as much as not, had a rifle that gave it up. He couldn't find either cheek using both hands. The rifle functioned perfectly (it seemed) but he changed the trigger and it came alive....Roger Avery is the name, I believe, and if you know Roger ask him about it.
Mike's point remains a good one...but there's more involved that I simply don't know about. Maybe nobody knows!
_______________________________________________________________
I returned to rebut that stuff I wrote above the line. After some thought, I realized that I don't know anything about triggers at all except when you pull it the rifle shoots. There are thousands of rifles built to win that fall short of the mark and I don't know whats wrong. Could easily be the trigger in some cases! One incident sticks out and I can't get rid of it. A well known centerfire shooter, one that wins as much as not, had a rifle that gave it up. He couldn't find either cheek using both hands. The rifle functioned perfectly (it seemed) but he changed the trigger and it came alive....Roger Avery is the name, I believe, and if you know Roger ask him about it.
Mike's point remains a good one...but there's more involved that I simply don't know about. Maybe nobody knows!
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M
Mr.T
Guest
I can maybe shed a bit of light on this subject as i am personally involved into design and build of triggers. First both Bix'n'Andy and Flavio Fare are European made so more expensive from the word go +cost will snowball to a degree before it reaches the market in US its the similar other way around( example Jewel BR costs 290$ in Europe ,http://www.henke-online.de/index.php?id=365) , both FF and Bix are far from new it just took time for shooters in US to discover them. Both are already from the start designed and built as no compromise designs with little regard to manufacturing cost ,as i know both smiths personally i can tell you that triggers were build in series of couple dozen per year prior to coming to US. Jewel on the other hand is designed to be built cheap and is actually very expensive for the type of manufacturing used.
* yes you are right Jewells fail even witout pierced primers that will kill it ASAP a personally lost 2 on centerfire.
But take a look at the other components stocks a 300$ Mcbros used top. now many have custom made stocks 2-3 times the cost, optics we used to think Weaver and Sightron were more than ok, and Leupold is expensive look now at all the March scopes on the line ,things are no different with ammo and in the end there is no clear answer to question does every component bring better scores probably they do to a degree but we all know that at certain point onwards improvments are increasingly smaller and costs increasingly more that is true in every tech driven sport .
H
Halldor Nik
Guest
Can FF handle stiker spring weighting more than 15LB?
I did hear somewhere it had problems with some weighting around 20LB
I did hear somewhere it had problems with some weighting around 20LB
M
Mr.T
Guest
Can FF handle stiker spring weighting more than 15LB?
I did hear somewhere it had problems with some weighting around 20LB
FF trigger is a centerfire trigger so designed for much more spring power than any rimfire action uses. I wonder where people come up with that kind of stuff LOL
A good friend a trigger and action designer Robert (CG22 triggers,CG extreme triggers,CG actions, RPA actions etc,) tested it also on one of his CG actions that have Bellville washers , those are very progressive in function so exhibit even more LB when cocked than 99% of centerfires but do produce fastest lock time off any ignition stack system.
He was testing the model equiped wih boltstop and safety as BR models are all sold out. Notice the low serial no.017 on a trigger purchased couple of weeks ago and design is already couple of years old.
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All very understandable. What might be worth a note, the Euro has fallen 35% vs the dollar in the last 18 months or so. I would truly love to figure out where that strength disappeared to.