First use of wind flag

[Montana Pete]

I got some advice on this forum recently, and one important recommendation was to use one or more wind flags.

Yesterday I shot at the range mostly at 100 yds, and had one homemade wind flag, which was half a broomstick with a 30 inch strip of yellow tape stuck to the top. The wind varied from about 5 to 15 mph., mainly from 3 o'clock but with occasional veering around the compass. I put the flag halfway to the target -- 50 yds out.

Here are some problems I encountered due to my lack of knowledge of what I was doing:

1. I could not see the flag and the target at the same time, since my 18X scope has a narrow field. By the time I decided to shoot, a couple of seconds were lost turning my eye back to the scope.

2. Time needed to fire-- Once the flag looked good, I began my trigger squeeze. I usually take about 15 seconds to squeeze off to get the necessary surprise break. By then, the wind might have changed.

3. The flag was either (a) stuck out to the left, (b) sagging as the wind diminished, or (c) veering around the compass indecisively in shifting wind. Which would be the best situation to actually fire the shot?

4. Do you try to hold off for the wind, or just keep your target quartered by the crosshairs? I did the latter, trying to shoot at the calmest point, but the next time I may just vary my hold-off in terms of the wind. So if the wind is stronger blowing toward the right, I would just hold off farther to the left. If the wind is momentarily calm, I would hold dead on. Worth a try, I suppose.

Did the flag help my shooting? Well, you would have to know how I and the rifle normally shoot, but my five 5-shot groups would have averaged under 1 MOA, and out of the five groups I got two that were 0.75 inch. My single 200 yd group was about 2.2 inch. For me this is pretty decent. I did not get any really outstanding group, I think due to the shifting wind.

 

[Al Nyhus]

Hi Pete. Here's my 2 cents worth....

If you're doing load work, you obviously don't want to hold off. Concentrate on the flag(s) and having the crosshairs exactly in the same place when you press the trigger.

Once you are happy with your load, then the flag(s) will teach you how much to hold off/up/down in a given condition.

With the higher powered scopes, set the flag(s) off to your left side (for a rt. handed shooter) so you can see them with your left eye. You'll need to shoot with both eyes open if you don't already. It's a hard habit to get into if you're used to closing your off eye but worth the effort to master.

A light (sub 1 lb.) trigger makes breaking the shot at the right moment a lot easier than a 2 lb. hunting trigger but the heavier triggers can be mastered with a bit of practice. Follow through after pressing the trigger is very, very important as well as keeping your eyes open so you know exactly where the crosshairs were when the gun fired.

Sounds like you're well on your way. Have fun and keep us posted. -Al

 

[Boyd Allen]

A couple of tips

Position your flag far enough to the left of your line of sight to the target that you can see it with your left eye while your right eye is behind the scope, so that you can shift your attention from target to flag without moving your head. (If you are shooting right handed)

Shoot with both eyes open, and stay behind the scope the entire time that you are shooting the group, including when you are reloading. This could take some practice.

Practice your trigger pull so that it doesn't take 15 seconds to get a shot off. (Worst case 3 seconds) So called dry fire practice will be good for this.

Theory says that wind closer to the shooter causes the greatest deflection at the target. With this in mind, a closer flag position might be better, depending on range conditions.

Dont' take time to admire or analyze your last shot until you have the rifle reloaded and re-aimed for the next one. The bullet hole isn't going anywhere, and by stopping you could loose a condition.

 

[caroby]

Learning the wind

I got some advice on this forum recently, and one important recommendation was to use one or more wind flags.

Yesterday I shot at the range mostly at 100 yds, and had one homemade wind flag, which was half a broomstick with a 30 inch strip of yellow tape stuck to the top. The wind varied from about 5 to 15 mph., mainly from 3 o'clock but with occasional veering around the compass. I put the flag halfway to the target -- 50 yds out.

Good, it's a start..! This is sufficent to allow you too "Better see" the winds real doings and "goings on"...


Here are some problems I encountered due to my lack of knowledge of what I was doing:

1. I could not see the flag and the target at the same time, since my 18X scope has a narrow field. By the time I decided to shoot, a couple of seconds were lost turning my eye back to the scope.

Are you nearsighted..? Having tough time seeing at distance? Glasses or contacts will be required.. We Benchrest shooters use narrow field of view 36+ power scopes some nearsighted (I my self) some farsighted. It's about getting set-up used to and comfortable seeing the tails (which is what you are useing). It takes time getting used to clearly seeing the tails reguardless of ones vision. Might want to also experiment with tieing multi tails together in a bunch at one end at the attachment point all the same length. This to help your visual accuity. Put the flag right under your barrel or just a few deg off to your free eye (non scope eye) and consentrate sighting your target through the scope while keeping an eye on the flag with your other eye... In time it will be natural.

2. Time needed to fire-- Once the flag looked good, I began my trigger squeeze. I usually take about 15 seconds to squeeze off to get the necessary surprise break. By then, the wind might have changed.

This is not a timed match.... So don't worry about the time it takes you to start and finish your group. This will be about patients... I understand your shooting a non benchrest trigger (2oz)... This is why BR shooters use them, instant break when the condition is RIGHT... Also the 2oz does not upset the gun. So what to do.... If your trigger breaks consistently (little to no creep and a consistent weight) then you have a decent platform. Focus on getting the time down from your stated 15sec to just a few sec at most.. Cause as you stated, the wind ain't gonna wait on you..! It's about consistentcy in all manners of gun handling.. And improving your trigger time or trigger squeeze time, just don't jerk.


3. The flag was either (a) stuck out to the left, (b) sagging as the wind diminished, or (c) veering around the compass indecisively in shifting wind. Which would be the best situation to actually fire the shot?

The condition that has the longest duration of hold both in velocity and angle... Sounds simple but it ain't... TRUST me, but with time you will SEE that this is true. Fast switchy wind will drive ya insane... But occasionally you will shoot 5 shots that go tiny and not just because your load tune and rifle/shooting manners are good but because you "picked" out the conditions correctly..... Ahhhhh it feels good! Which would be the best situation to actually fire the shot? >A<........ B. and C. will get you the dreaded "shot out" syndrom... But so will condition A. pure velocity, watch the ripple in the ribbon, this will give you hints in velocity intensity. Condition A. will allow you the most consistency. B. is a let-up and always bad! ... C. is a radical switch and just set back and relax till the "stuck out left" condition comes back and watch the intensity.... Go bang there.


4. Do you try to hold off for the wind, or just keep your target quartered by the crosshairs? I did the latter, trying to shoot at the calmest point, but the next time I may just vary my hold-off in terms of the wind. So if the wind is stronger blowing toward the right, I would just hold off farther to the left. If the wind is momentarily calm, I would hold dead on. Worth a try, I suppose.



To hold off or maintain a constent P.O.A..... Well to start of I'd recommed not holding off yet. Your best bet is to maintain a one point of aim... Watch where the bullets go... Even if ugly.. It's a learning curve... you will start to see the effects of the flag angle and tail intensity on your bullet impacts.
One of the best advice I can give is use the most CONSISTENTLY ACCURATE rifle you got or have access to. This will SIGNIFICANTLY speed up your learning curve... If you can get "some" time behind a VERY accurate varmint rifle or a True Benchrest rifle....DO it! See the wind!
If the current gun you are shooting is not cappable of <= 1/2 MOA you won't learn quite as much... BUT ... If your gun is an honest < 1 MOA gun then that is sufficient... > 1 MOA, then you will waste a lot of expensive ammo... Life is too short.... Get ya and accurate rifle..! IMOP.... < 3/4 MOA...

Did the flag help my shooting? Well, you would have to know how I and the rifle normally shoot, but my five 5-shot groups would have averaged under 1 MOA, and out of the five groups I got two that were 0.75 inch. My single 200 yd group was about 2.2 inch. For me this is pretty decent. I did not get any really outstanding group, I think due to the shifting wind.


More advice, always use your flags while at the range......! In time, you will feel down right naked without your flags at the range..!

And I agree with both Boyd and Al.... Excellent advice and dead true.

Good on you Pete!
cale

 

[RJG]

Hi Pete.

1. I could not see the flag and the target at the same time…
Try getting used to shooting with your non shooting eye open and watching the flags.

2. Time needed to fire…
You have to do better than 15 seconds to get the shot off. At least if you are watching the flags with your non shooting eye you will have a chance to get the shot to break at the right time. A better trigger can help with this. (a 1.5 oz Jewell just takes a touch for instance)

3. … Which would be the best situation to actually fire the shot?
Especially in your situation the condition that would be the best would be the condition that stayed around the longest, and keeps repeating itself. You seem to be noticing pretty good what the flag is doing, add in how long it is doing it, and use it to your advantage.

4. Do you try to hold off for the wind, or just keep your target quartered by the crosshairs?
It depends on what you are trying to do, but at the beginning it is probably better just to hold in the same spot and try to get your condition back before shooting. Once you have that working pretty good and have observed what the wind is doing to your bullet on target, then maybe practice holding to see if you can predict what a certain condition would do. A sighter off record can help show you what a given condition will do before holding on record.

Just keep working at it and you will get better. If you want to get better faster, dive in to a BR shoot. Shooting in competition has a way of sharpening your focus and you tend to get better faster. Also there are a lot of people around that can and will help... and it is a lot of fun!

Rick Graham

 

[Dusty Stevens]

sit down and watch where the different angles take your bullet. don't worry about group size for this exercise. then you'll see how far a 180deg swap takes it. then concentrate on shooting the same steady wind. once it settles out try to get the 5 shots off in 3 minutes. just see how long that condition stays. it will flip flop all around but always come back. just wait until its steady- not shoot as soon as it's back. I like to put a flag in the yard and just watch it and time it when I ain't doin nothin else. try that. you really need a vane type flag. buy a cheap one from sinclair or midway or somethin. put it at 25yds off to your left and then you ought to be able to see it. lots of good advice here- you'll get it soon enough.

 

[abintx]

Pete ...

Here's my 20 cents ... 2 cents adjusted for inflation. Shoot free recoil using Rick Graham's flags and sail tails.

My first flag was a bathroom plunger with a nail driven into the top of the handle and a piece of surveyor's tape tied to it. From there it was all up hill.

I have 5 of Rick's flags, 3 regular for 100 yards and 2 large ones for the back end of 200 yards. You don't need to buy all at once. Buy what you can afford now, then add others later. Here's Rick's site: http://www.brflags.com/

Learning to shoot free recoil gets your body completely off the rifle except for the trigger, and in my case the trigger guard. My technique is to place my thumb behind the trigger guard; push my thumb forward until the fore end of the stock is putting light pressure on the front rest stop. Once my sight picture is determined for the condition I want to shoot, which includes holding off if required, by making elevation and windage adjustments with the front rest, I move my head into an upright position, using both eyes to watch the flags. When I see the condition I want to shoot, I squeeze my thumb and trigger finger together releasing the trigger. A very light trigger, preferably 2 ounces, will improve your timing. Having complete confidence in your technique, acquired through routine practice, also helps. Art

 

[alinwa]

Now THIS IS WHAT THIS BOARD'S ABOUT!!!

Good on ALL Y'ALL, lot of good info here, all's I can add is 'ditto"..... except that it's hard to actually "see" the wind without a truly accurate rifle.


al

 

[Dusty Stevens]

"I like to put a flag in the yard and just watch it and time it when I ain't doin nothin else. "

That has to be the most watched flag in Arkansas. Hehehehehe

actually it's been almost a year since I have done that- remember I have to pay in social security

 

[AVanGorder]

Rick Graham Flags

...I have 5 of Rick's flags, 3 regular for 100 yards and 2 large ones for the back end of 200 yards...

Rick,

If you're on the board reading this, Do you make the large flags in the bright colors? Will the large flags fit my same poles?

Adrian

 

[SooStan]

I made my flags from old political signs. Read Mike Rattigans book. My home made ones cost me a roll of surveyors tape. Works for now until I decide that I need something better. It is shocking to see what the flags say vs. what you feel or think. It has improved my groups and cleaned up my long range Oh S.... where did that come from.

 

[caroby]

I made my flags from old political signs. Read Mike Rattigans book. My home made ones cost me a roll of surveyors tape. Works for now until I decide that I need something better. It is shocking to see what the flags say vs. what you feel or think. It has improved my groups and cleaned up my long range Oh S.... where did that come from.

Praise be..!!!!! More are see'n the light!
Good'n on you Stan!

The word is spread'n...> al up in the NW...!

cale

 

[AVanGorder]

Importance of Wind Flags

This picture is an example of how the wind can be so different at different parts of the range. Take a look at the various flags and you'll see 360 degrees of wind.

Without the flags, you would never know what the wind was doing in the path that your bullet is flying.

 

[mikeearly]

This picture is an example of how the wind can be so different at different parts of the range. Take a look at the various flags and you'll see 360 degrees of wind.

Without the flags, you would never know what the wind was doing in the path that your bullet is flying.

I agree and have seen this a few times.... however, even though I can see what the wind is doing and have some understanding of what it is going to do to my flying bullet ....... I seem to have trouble knowing "exactly" what to do to take full advantage of all of the information.....

 

[AVanGorder]

I agree and have seen this a few times.... however, even though I can see what the wind is doing and have some understanding of what it is going to do to my flying bullet ....... I seem to have trouble knowing "exactly" what to do to take full advantage of all of the information.....

I hear ya Mike, I try to wait it out if I can. I do like to take a shot or two at the sighter target just to see what happens. However, I usually afraid to pull the trigger on the record target.

Adrian