Extractor problem

W

wahoowah

Guest
I had a gunsmith install on a Mauser 98 action a Douglas barrell chambered for a rimmed cartridge. The extractor will not fit over the rim. Does the extractor groove have to be deepened to give the extractor more room to move to the right or can the extractor lip be ground back untl it snaps over the rim? The gunsmith is located out of town and I was hoping to save shipping costs both ways and the 2 - 3 week loss of time.

Thanks.
 
Mauser 98 actions are set up to feed from the magazine.Try that.
Some more information would be help full -as in what cartridge ?

Glenn:D
 
The Mauser 98 has a poor extractor design... it can be altered carefully so it will snap over a chambered round. I stress carefully as it still must grip the cartridge well for ejection. I say a poor design as the end of it is thin. The old Model 70 extractor is deep and stronger and snaps over easy... but the down side is the huge relief that is required in the barrel.
 
With a round fed by hand on Mauser action, it is possible to squeeze the extractor (about midway) in towards the bolt while camming the bolt closed on the round, and the extractor will jump over the base of the cartridge, and you're good to go. However, I don't know if this will work on this rimmed case.
 
wahoowah said:
The extractor will not fit over the rim. Does the extractor groove have to be deepened to give the extractor more room to move to the right or can the extractor lip be ground back untl it snaps over the rim? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Mr. Wahoowah, can you believe, that the groove doesn't have to be deepened?

Mr. Wahoowah, would you believe that all what's needed is to grind the extractor slant further out for the whole case head to be only on the slant, rather than the flat face and possibly to shorten the hook very slightly.

Mr. Wahoowah, can you believe that it can be quiet fiddly and that some extractors aren't too hard and can be also filed?

Mr. Wahoowah, can you trust and believe that your overall skills are good enough to perform that task succesfully?

Con
 
Mr Cross, how do you know all this?

Mr Cross, are you like Mr Sorensen a real live gunsmith?

Mr Cross, have you ever (successfully) modified a Mauser extractor?

Mr Cross, everything in the whole world cannot be learned by searching Google. :eek:
 
Larry,

Don't encourage him. Put him on your ignore list & he's as good as gone away.

Better still, let him know after you do it. That will really burn him. :rolleyes:

John
 
Larry Elliott said:
Mr Cross, how do you know all this?

Mr Cross, are you like Mr Sorensen a real live gunsmith?

Mr Cross, have you ever (successfully) modified a Mauser extractor?

Mr Cross, everything in the whole world cannot be learned by searching Google. :eek:
Click to expand...

Mr. Larry Elliott, would you believe, that asking too many questions can lead to your high blood pressure and irritability.

Mr. Larry Elliott, do you really believe, that you know how the Mauser 98 extractor looks like?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. John Kielly, what a nice bright gentleman you're and do you believe, that you always have the best advice handy at your finger tip.

Con
 
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Ain't no big deal. Just carefully file the inside top hook off the extractor, and give a bit of a polish, and it slips over the rim easily. I did several, everything from commercial to Siamese Mausers, cartridges from the 7mm Remington Mag to the .45-70 and .348 Winchester, and it works every time. Cartridge type doesn't much matter, its the hook preventing the extractor from lateral movement and slipping over the rim, it also works with rimless cases. Check the picture and file the extractor to the contour shown, you'll remove the hook, shown as yellow lines. Work slow and check function until the bolt closes easily. Don't remove any other metal below this area, but you may want to polish it with a felt bob and some buffing compound. You will need an extractor ring pliers to replace the extractor easily, but one can be made from a cheap long nose pliers with a propane torch to heat and shape the jaws. The tool can be purchased from Brownell's, or you can see an illustration in the catalog to get an idea of the shape (Brownell's No. 080-017-000 Bolt Extractor Pliers $25.00).

Any neurosurgeon can do it without removing the extractor - but ham handed guys best remove it first. :)

When you're done cartridges load right into the chamber. You assume all responsibility for following these instructions of course, and I ain't guarantying you won't screw up by using a hoof rasp for a file, or any for other reason beyond my control.

Magazines can be modified with a plastic or metal wedge to keep rims separated if there's enough room in the magazine, depends on the cartridge and OAL.

BoltFace.jpg
 
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axlenut said:
Ain't no big deal. Just carefully file the inside top hook off the extractor, and give a bit of a polish, and it slips over the rim easily. I did several, everything from commercial to Siamese Mausers, cartridges from the 7mm Remington Mag to the .45-70 and .348 Winchester, and it works every time. Cartridge type doesn't much matter, its the hook preventing the extractor from lateral movement and slipping over the rim, it also works with rimless cases. Check the picture and file the extractor to the contour shown, you'll remove the hook, shown as yellow lines. Work slow and check function until the bolt closes easily. Don't remove any other metal below this area, but you may want to polish it with a felt bob and some buffing compound. You will need an extractor ring pliers to replace the extractor easily, but one can be made from a cheap long nose pliers with a propane torch to heat and shape the jaws. The tool can be purchased from Brownell's, or you can see an illustration in the catalog to get an idea of the shape (Brownell's No. 080-017-000 Bolt Extractor Pliers $25.00).

Any neurosurgeon can do it without removing the extractor - but ham handed guys best remove it first. :)

When you're done cartridges load right into the chamber. You assume all responsibility for following these instructions of course, and I ain't guarantying you won't screw up by using a hoof rasp for a file, or any for other reason beyond my control.

Magazines can be modified with a plastic or metal wedge to keep rims separated if there's enough room in the magazine, depends on the cartridge and OAL.

BoltFace.jpg
Click to expand...




I don't remove the hook at all... I bevel the edge that contacts the brass so the bevel will cause the extractor lip to be forced out and snap over the rim.
I try and leave all the metal I can engaging the brass...


.
 
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Many thanks to all of you who took the time to post a reply, and especially to Axlenut for his solution and the most helpful picture I can imagine. If I can't do the job after his and Dennis' responses, I will be surprised.
 
I would dearly like to know what good it does to take material off the top side of the hook? That should have no effect of how it should fit over the cartridge. Dennis' response was right on.

One thing you may want to do is make sure the rimmed cartridge fits under the extractor and against the bolt face. What is the diameter of the cartridge rim? If it is bigger than the standard '06 size, the extractor is going to bind on the action body when trying to close the bolt.
 
Jkob said:
I would dearly like to know what good it does to take material off the top side of the hook? That should have no effect of how it should fit over the cartridge. Dennis' response was right on.

One thing you may want to do is make sure the rimmed cartridge fits under the extractor and against the bolt face. What is the diameter of the cartridge rim? If it is bigger than the standard '06 size, the extractor is going to bind on the action body when trying to close the bolt.
Click to expand...

Mr. Dennis Sorensen, gunsmiths and gentleman, would you believe, that if the hook is too long, the case rim too big and the extractor to the receiver radial fit is too tight something needs to be shortened for the extractor to work.

Gentleman, with your technical mind can you possibly believe, that enlarging the bevel and shortening the hook slightly may be the least and the easiest what one can do for the extractor to work.

Con
 
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For altering the claw to snap over a chambered shell this is what I recommend.

You grind a stone to the same diameter as the extractor groove of the cartridge and use it to grind the radius on the claw... including the tip... so when the extractor is on the cartridge, this fit is perfect...it must hold the shell against the bolt. If it drops the shell on extraction it will not eject properly... then you grind a stone to the same diameter or slightly larger than the rim and use this stone to grind a short bevel for the rim to contact and force the claw out and over the rim. Do not grind into the previous radius you ground with the smaller stone. Polish this bevel... do not shorten the tip of the claw at all...

There are other things to do if it is not feeding up into the extractor from the magazine. The above procedure has nothing to do with that at all.
 
Please don't remove the hook. It's there for a reason. I'd still like to know what the boltface was to start with and what cartridge you're trying to run home. There might be more work needed than you've let on with the limited information you've supplied here.

Again I will say:
Please don't remove the hook. It's there for a reason.

You want to do it right the first time. Don't you???

gunmaker
 
Con Cross said:
Mr. Dennis Sorensen, gunsmiths and gentleman, would you believe, that if the hook is too long, the case rim too big and the extractor to the receiver radial fit is too tight something needs to be shortened for the extractor to work.

Gentleman, with your technical mind can you possibly believe, that enlarging the bevel and shortening the hook slightly may be the least and the easiest what one can do for the extractor to work.

Con
Click to expand...

Gentlemen,

Would you possibly believe that anyone that pays any more attention to this "Con" artist is eligible for the "garage mechanic of the year" award. I have had enuf.
 
Try Dennis Sorenson's method first, remove as little as possible. If it works, then it's good. Depending on your cartridge it may work. That method would probably work with older Remington .45-70 cases that had a radiused rim. Always follow the rule of "you can always remove more, but putting it back is tougher." You are trying to make the extractor move laterally, and it can still happen with a bit of the hook left. Also follow Sorenson's advise to not remove any material from the claw radius - you want that to remain fully in contact with the rim - for the reason he states.

If your rifle feeds from the magazine now, it should work with the modification.

The method I use was adopted from that used by Micro Sight gunsmiths in Mauser conversions. The photo in the first post is of a 7mm Remington Magnum Mark X bolt. All mine feed and eject normally. In my first post I erred, the Siamese Mauser does not need the hook removed - it has no hook. Pictures below is a Siamese Mauser bolt and extractor the way they were manufactured for the rimmed 8 x 52R Siamese Mauser cartridge.

SiameseMauserBoltFace.jpg

SiameseExtractor.jpg


Here is a photo of a Mark X extractor modified by Tom Miller of RCBS when he did a barrel job for me back in the '70's.

Mauser375.jpg


Look at the extractor of a Ruger 77. Ruger left the hook completely off to create a dual function extractor.

The hook has several design purposes, one of which was to arrest upward movement of the case as it fed into the bolt face, along with that projection of steel above the bolt face. Remember these were military actions and they wanted maximum reliability in feeding, extraction and ejection. The hook is a feature of controlled round feeding that requires loading from the magazine. Magazines were charged using stripper clips, or single round loading in a pinch. The down side is that a cartridge can't easily be fed directly into the chamber without working it through the magazine.

If you give it a try, all you can lose is an extractor, but working carefully you will gain a new understanding of how things work and a sense of accomplishment.
 
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