exploring the upper load limit,hot,133

E

emonthedemon

Guest
I've been working with 133 for about three months now & I haven't got it really shooting dots like a 6ppc should.I've got all the cases turned to .0085 for the .262 neck.Right off the bat I was getting two different groups,load was from 28gr to 29.8 gr of 133 with a .258 bushing.Overall lenght was from just touching to jamed hard in the riflings.Went to .257 bushing & the two different groups went away.Went to the .2565 bushing & the groups blowed up,back to the 257.Kinda gave up on 133 for awhile.tried benchmark,29gr to 29.8,shoots ok but it wasn't good enough,so last Monday I started over.I started with 28gr 133 & went up .2tenths at a time,none of the 28 plus gr loads looked good,the load started looking better at 29.4grs & then went south till I got to 29.8grs,but it still wasn't shooting dots.I had my flags out & the wind wasn't to bad,switchy from about 4oclock to 7oclock,waited till I got the seven oclock wind to shoot.Also during this time I was watching the temp & hum,the temp went from 64 to 74 & the hum went from 27 percent to 23 & then back to 24 percent.So since I haven't melted any primers yet I went up in powder to 30.1grs & man did that baby start talking then,groups look like the dots.In another post MR. Bart said he shot anywhere from 27.9 to 30.5 grs of 133,what am I looking for thats going to tell me that its time back off besides hard bolt lift & melted primers or the groupe opening up.I'm full lenght sizing every time & bumping the shoulder back .001 everytime.I started having hard bolt lift around 29.2gr of 133.Its very rare that I get that low hum here in TX,but we do get really hot here along with high hum,like mid 90's to 100 & 85 percent hum.Anyway the gun is shilen barrel 27 in long ,14 twist on a reworked rem action.thanks for any replys larry
 
I had a barrel like that and it preferred H322 to N133 until temperatures got up to 85 degrees and above. Then N133 came back into favor but man did H322 shoot good when the temps were around 50 degrees.
 
133

I shoot 133 two ways. hot, and hotter. I never change my load more than .3 grn. The main thing I pay attention to is the humidity. When it is up, I shoot the hot load. When it drops below 40 percent, I shoot the hotter load.

I am from Houston, and since you probably do not know me, I will say you just have to trust me when I say that I know how to make 133 work in the wide humidity swings we have in this Region.
What bullet are you shooting? That has a lot to do with where the initial pressure spike will be. Double radius style bullets such as the Barts Ultra, Bruno Boatail, and a few others are what I consider 'slow" bullets. They do not build pressure for a given load the way bullets with more conventional ogives do.

I have never had luck with trying to shoot in the lower load windows. Sure, you can stumble on a combination that will look really good, but it's not going to stay there.

133 is one of those powders that likes the upper load window. The reason it has such a bad reputaion as being hard to keep in tune is shooters are not willing to go there. When you shoot up there, case life is cut to a minimum.

When a shooter says, "you should be able to wear a barrel out with 15 cases", ask him how many matches he won using those 15 cases.

Of course, I also use a tuner. But if you have been reading the post on tuners, you know that there are several Gurus who will tell you that my tuner does not work. So, since the tuner doesn't work, the only thing I can owe any success that I might enjoy is to the way I shoot the 133 .......jackie
 
Jackie,

what do you consider a "hot load" of N133? My current barrel loves about 28.6 grains and if I go too much above that, my bolt gets sticky and my groups open way up.
 
sorry the bullet is a 68 gr berger,& yes I don't know you personally but I came to Tomball a few years back & watched you shoot & Speedy,it was a cold very windy day & the groups you guys were shooting just blowed me away.I walked up & down the firing line & looked at all those fancy guns & said I don't think I can compete,but I still would like to try.I have a very heathly respect that any one can shoot a ten & one half pound gun,free recoil, loaded to the gills & that 45x doesn't slap them right between the eyes.I was leary when I got to 30+ gr of 133 because I got a sako extracter in my bolt,so I raised my head off the stock,well the extracter didn't come out so the next shot I look thru the scope & the 45x slapped me right betreen the eyes.Anyway my gun want make weight ,I was wondering if I could come down sometime & shoot a match I don't care for any wood or trophy,I got enough of that from another sport.I really need somebody to show me the things I do wrong & how to get the gun set up right on the bags.If that is to much trouble I'll understand. thanks for your reply larry
 
Larry

I would think that 30.0 grns of N133 would be a little too hot in a Shilen Barrel, and a Berger, which, if I am not mistaken, is a .7 3/4 ogive bullet.
In all honesty, I can't comment on that combination, because what I shoot is quite a bit different in how it works in the Rifle.
The best thing to do is go to the range with a good chronograph, and work up loads untill you see 3400. That will be the beginning of the upper window. Work from there untill the Rifle tightens up.
Just curious, why have you got a 27 inch long barrel on a 6PPC??.....JACKIE
 
I will do just that,it will be a month before I'm off work again & the next time I'm off I chrono the loads.Why the 27in barrel,just didn't see any need to cut it off any since I didn't build the gun to shoot benchrest.Several of us guys here in east Tx get togather & we shoot marbles on a golf tee out to 200yds.I had to have a gun to compete with these guys they where kicking my butt. thanks larry
 
I have to say this as I am getting concerned about new shooters reading info on loads. What Jackie and others are using is for a Kreiger .237 barrel, double ogive bullets, custom action, and tested to work in their rifles. It has been my experience that this load can be dangerously hot when any of these components are changed and in this case almost everything is. Be careful as things can react badly and quickly, especiallt with a reworked rem with a Sako style extractor. Accurate guns are one of the most enjoyable things on earth , but when things blow up,you will have a new prospective.
 
jackie schmidt said:
the upper window with my combination is about 3430 fps out of a 21.5 inch barrel........jackie
Click to expand...


Holy mackerel! If I ran that hot, I would be wearing my bolt in my cheek. Ok, maybe not. But it would sure be hard to open my bolt and I don't like unsettling my bags that much. My old barrel however, did like to be run that fast--especially after 1500 rounds had been fired down it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top