Exploding gun part two
- Thread starter Tod Soeby
- Start date
Tod Soeby
Tod
Yes sell the powder but keep the rest of your supplies and buy some Varget to go along with them.
In all seriousness do you have an update for us yet?
Lynn
OR SELL THE POWDER, 1300 SORTED BULLETS, BRASS, DIES, ECT.... AND REBUILD TO SOMETHING ELSE!!
Tod
Yes sell the powder but keep the rest of your supplies and buy some Varget to go along with them.
In all seriousness do you have an update for us yet?
Lynn
Update
Update Tried new lot RL15 which I had on hand. Still showd signs of PSI, but no sticky bolt or blown primers, just shiny extractor marks. velocity for five shots was 3080....to hot, so I expected som PSI signs. Reduced charge by 1/2 gr.... from 32.6 down to 32.1.....no chrono data, but still showed signs of high PSI.... Just got back from Pella today....Picked up 2 lbs Varget to try.....I couldn't get myself to pull the triger on an 8lb jug. YET!!!
I will let you know.
Thanks,
Tod
Update Tried new lot RL15 which I had on hand. Still showd signs of PSI, but no sticky bolt or blown primers, just shiny extractor marks. velocity for five shots was 3080....to hot, so I expected som PSI signs. Reduced charge by 1/2 gr.... from 32.6 down to 32.1.....no chrono data, but still showed signs of high PSI.... Just got back from Pella today....Picked up 2 lbs Varget to try.....I couldn't get myself to pull the triger on an 8lb jug. YET!!!
I will let you know.
Thanks,
Tod
O
Old Gunner
Guest
I'd like to hear more about these horror stories involving RL-15.
I don't trust all the hype I've run into on other boards involving this powder.
Alliant has the contract for recycling nitrocellulose artillery propellants and I suspect they've been using this recycled propellant in their double base powders.
No powder is immune to breakdown. Ordnance Disposal groups have been warning of huge quantities of double base powders going sour recently due to the etyhl centralite stabilizers being expended sooner than expected. There have been many accidents due to this in recent years.
The high percentage of deterrents used to coat double base powders seem to add to both fouling and gas/mechanical erosion.
Have you used a bore scope or star gauge on this barrel lately?
The symptoms you describe may indicate unequal erosion of the grooves due to Nitroglycerin's high molecular weight of combustion gases.
Carbon can also infiltrate gator checking of the grooves causing a reduction of bore diameter about 2-3 inches in front of the throat then a section of bore were the grooves are eroded deeper allowing blowby that heats the bullet jacket which then tries to size up in the bore further up.
In extreme cases the jacket will separate and the core blow through, even with full metal jackets.
This was a problem the early .303 had before they reduced the nitro content but remains a possible problem with any double base propellant.
If you get a bullet striking way low don't fire again till you check the bore for a blown through jacket stuck about halway up. When this condition appeared with the .303 there were a few fatal or near fatal blow outs with broken boltheads and blown out extractors.
Lead lapping may reduce the problem at the cost of slight increase in bore size. If not the barrel is toast.
This is of course a fairly rare condition but with some of the quality control problems of powder makers these days its better safe than sorry.
I use only Single base powders for all my rifle caliber reloading.
I don't trust all the hype I've run into on other boards involving this powder.
Alliant has the contract for recycling nitrocellulose artillery propellants and I suspect they've been using this recycled propellant in their double base powders.
No powder is immune to breakdown. Ordnance Disposal groups have been warning of huge quantities of double base powders going sour recently due to the etyhl centralite stabilizers being expended sooner than expected. There have been many accidents due to this in recent years.
The high percentage of deterrents used to coat double base powders seem to add to both fouling and gas/mechanical erosion.
Have you used a bore scope or star gauge on this barrel lately?
The symptoms you describe may indicate unequal erosion of the grooves due to Nitroglycerin's high molecular weight of combustion gases.
Carbon can also infiltrate gator checking of the grooves causing a reduction of bore diameter about 2-3 inches in front of the throat then a section of bore were the grooves are eroded deeper allowing blowby that heats the bullet jacket which then tries to size up in the bore further up.
In extreme cases the jacket will separate and the core blow through, even with full metal jackets.
This was a problem the early .303 had before they reduced the nitro content but remains a possible problem with any double base propellant.
If you get a bullet striking way low don't fire again till you check the bore for a blown through jacket stuck about halway up. When this condition appeared with the .303 there were a few fatal or near fatal blow outs with broken boltheads and blown out extractors.
Lead lapping may reduce the problem at the cost of slight increase in bore size. If not the barrel is toast.
This is of course a fairly rare condition but with some of the quality control problems of powder makers these days its better safe than sorry.
I use only Single base powders for all my rifle caliber reloading.
Last edited by a moderator:
OldGunner
OldGunner
I have only had 3 problems related to gunpowder.The first was a bottle of RE22 lot# 25083 that was extremely hot.If you went to the Alliant website a while back the warnings about this powder were front page news.
The second problem was with a one pound bottle of RE15.It turned red smelled awful and was wet to the touch.
The third problem was the replacement bottle for the previously mentioned RE15.One day all was well the next day primers were popping and sticky bolt lift.It was all over the place day to day so I gave up on it.
There are many guys here that love it and have never had a problem unfortunately I am not one of them.
Lynn aka Waterboy
OldGunner
I have only had 3 problems related to gunpowder.The first was a bottle of RE22 lot# 25083 that was extremely hot.If you went to the Alliant website a while back the warnings about this powder were front page news.
The second problem was with a one pound bottle of RE15.It turned red smelled awful and was wet to the touch.
The third problem was the replacement bottle for the previously mentioned RE15.One day all was well the next day primers were popping and sticky bolt lift.It was all over the place day to day so I gave up on it.
There are many guys here that love it and have never had a problem unfortunately I am not one of them.
Lynn aka Waterboy
O
Old Gunner
Guest
Thank you very much for your reply. Ive been having a go round with an obnoxious poster on another board about some of his claims concerning propellants. I've been away from handloading for a few years, and haven't done much centerfire shooting for awhile, so I'd begun to think something new had come along to change the big picture. I've found though that the afore mentioned jerk doesn't know beans about powders and seems to be one of those internet poseurs I've learned to spot.
When the subject isn't a serious one those sorts can be easily ignored, but firearms safety is too serious to take that lightly.
Reason I decided to visit this forum is that those who post here take the sport very seriously, so I figure I can get straight answers to any questions I might have about recent developments in handloading.
I started out with very primitive tools and limited choices of components. I've even made do with truly primitive methods once used by resistence fighters, like using a hole drilled in a steel slab to necksize cases when I didn't have dies for that caliber. I got very good results considering and managed to not blow my face off during the learning curve.
I have a prejudice against double base powders because of the Ichord Committee findings on the M16. I was disgusted to discover that our military has now adopted ball powder for almost every use except 7.62 AP rounds. They used a Norwegian Single base powder for AP.
When I began reading of our troops once more having to carrying cleaning rods taped to their rifles to punch out jammed cartridges and troops having to abandon jammed rifles and pick up one from a fallen comrade to finish a fight my blood boiled. Their rifles are failing in combat at a rate of around 20% with the gun put out of action for the duration of the fight one fifth of the time, thats ridiculous, especially since its been known for forty years that carbon fouling from Ball Powder is the reason for these failures. Even far less sensitive gas operation systems are failing with todays ammunition. And all because the bean counters want to use recycled powders to supposedly save a few bucks.
The Ichord committee said it bordered on criminal negligence to continue to use Ball Powder in 5.56 ammo, and I agree.
Well rant over, for now at least, but at my age I'll probably start up again before long.
Near as I can tell the best powders for the type of taylored hadload I want for use at 600 yards is IMR type 4895 or equivalent.
The rifles I'll be using are a No.4 savage of proven accuracy with consistent sub MOA performance out to three hundred yards and a cherry 1915 No.1 that I'm restocking with new condition wood in English Walnut and topping off with a PH5A sight with six position adjustable apeture. I'm looking to duplicate original balistics which are very close to those of the 7.62 Matchgrade ammo. Bullets of 175 grain and velocity around 2,460 fps. I'd like to keep pressures below 48,000 psi.
3031 is designed for this cartridge but 4895 has a better rep for matchgrade ammo.
OldGunner
First I use almost exclusively Hodgdon powders so I am not that familiar with Alliant powders but I thought that RE15 and 22 were single base. I do know I have yet to get an Alliant powder to group well in anything.
The barrel was new and rough. I have since sent the barrel back it was re-lapped and I swithched to H4350, no more issues. Although it still copper fouls more than I would like it is acting like it wants to shoot now.
Tod,
Sorry about the thread hijack and congratulations on some good shooting again at Pella.
James
Thanks......But.....I want it on the record.....someone in Pella still owes me some ice cream...you know...the "DQ" brand!!
I hope to be down next month to collect!!!!
Tod