Eley Biathlon

Fred,
I'm guessing it'll take less weight than you think. May not take as much weight as a straight .850 barrel. You'll figure it out once you begin testing. Best of luck.
 
Hey Kent,

I don't have any hands on experience figuring what weight tuners go on what barrels ... I would have thought that a barrel with more mass would need a heavier tuner to stop standing waves ... sound like you're saying that this is not the case??? What's the key here?

Fred
 
Shorty,

I don't know you from Adam or Eve, but the more you post the more I think you haven't a clue what the frick you are talking about. :confused:

I believe your the same guy that came on here and said bad things about Joe Cowan who bent over backwards to please you, but you were too much of a jerk to help.
 
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Do you only have one gun? I imagine you have several. Do they all shoot as well as the next when you feed them the exact same lot of ammo? Or do they all behave differently? I'm quite sure if you ask any competitive shooter with several competitive guns that they have seperate lots set aside for each gun. That seems to be the consensus of people both here and elsewhere, and in anything I've read. Each gun is tested with different lots until they find a lot that *that* gun likes, and then they buy as much of that lot as they can to keep *that* gun happy. And then they go testing for the next gun, where they just start all over and do the same thing. Find a lot that *that* gun likes. I sincerely doubt you will find anyone here or in any other shooting sport that takes one gun, tests ammo with it, and then feeds each and every gun they own that particular lot that proved good in that particular gun. What's next? After they find a tuner setting for one gun they change all the tuners on all their other guns to those same settings because, hey, it worked there, so that's *the* setting! Same thing. You lot test for a particular gun/barrel because all guns/barrels are different. Quite a strange thing to contest.
I don't know you from Adam or Eve, but the more you post the more I think you haven't a clue what the frick you are talking about. :confused:
 
Talk to the guys that shoot a lot better than you or I that know more as well about finding a killer ammo, and I believe they will tell you that in the same conditions that was tested from one great gun, barrel, and shooter who knows what they are doing, and they sell some of that same great ammo or tell another great shooter about the particular lot, more times than not that same ammo will shoot very well in the other persons gun.

I talked to others who know killer ammo. Killer ammo more times than not will be recognized by one precision barrel to the the next. That's usually why more barrels than not will usually win with the Eley ammo. If you doubt that, go look at all the guns and shooters who shoot Eley ammo vs Lapua or any other brand. Now explain that one smarty. It's not a brand thing but rather a good ammo thing being shot with precison barrels with good shooters who know what they are doing. Eley ammo for the most part is doing what the other brands aren't, and that's competing on a national level day in and day out. The fact is that they are making the most consistant ammo right now and the same thing can be said for last year and the year before that.

Brad
 
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Brad, you're saying "with Eley ammo" as if that's all that mattered. Grabbing the box that says Eley. It's not that simple. I already stated that competitive shooters will lot test for a gun, so why you're saying it back to me as if it was something I never said is puzzling. The fact remains that guns and ammo lots need to be matched. That's why those shooters lot test. And that's why they stock up on a lot they find to work well in that gun. The fact that any given lot works well in one gun does *not* guarantee it will shoot that well in another gun. And I believe that's what you're trying to say. All those shooters you're talking about would tend to disagree with that statement. They all test lots until they find what works in one gun. And then they start all over again for the next gun. They may indeed start out with a lot they know works well in gun A, but they know all too well that it isn't necessarily going to give them the same performance in gun B. It might, but chances are good that it won't, and they'll still be in search of a lot that shoots to their satisfaction in gun B. And gun C. And gun D, etc, etc. There is no 'golden lot' that will shoot well in every single gun you put it in. And that last statement is what I believe you're trying to say. But everything I've ever read doesn't support it at all, from very well-known gunsmiths and all those incredibly talented shooters with incredible records shooting with incredible equipment. I didn't say a single thing about my own shooting or my own equipment or my own experience. I'm relaying everything I've read, which is all out there for you and anyone else to read, including right here on this forum. No matter how hard you try to convince me that there are 'golden lots' I will not believe it, not when there is all this other related experience that disagrees with that statement. Sorry, dude. They all say lot-to-gun (and/or lot-to-barrel, which is basically the same) tends to be a one-off, and switching guns means the search begins again.
 
Fred, I gotta hand it to you, man you are on top of it. I was curious about the same thing ever since Calfee posted his method of setting a tuner. He uses Eley ammo of two different velocities, 40fps difference. I think he uses 1035 and 1075, but I think anything as long as it's 40fps difference is okay, I have some 1080 and some 1040 I was going to try whenever it warms up here. I don't think he uses a chrono either, just whatever the box says. The one thing he never explained though is he does it at 42yds; I wonder if that's by design or by circumstance where he shoots? it makes a difference where I shoot because our targets are set at 50yds, not sure whether that 8yds makes a difference? If it does matter into the equation, I can set up a tempoary target at 42yds.

Speaking of Calfee, remember a while back when he posted about a tuner that you could only adjust by adding/subtracting weights? Fred, your design is very much along the same lines, I like it a lot. That must have been quite a machineing job to produce the various weights. I think you got something there; keep up the good work.

Thanks, Douglas
 
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Well then, to stay on topic, I don't even follow Calfee's logic in setting up a tuner in this fashion. He wrote that this would guarantee the muzzle is stopped, but it seems to me that this is just an indication that it is actually behaving differently for both speeds. The differing speeds, with all else being equal, should result in a different POI. Launching any given projectile at different speeds, but same angle, should result in differing points of impact. So if you do find a tuner setting that makes a 1040 ft/s bullet hit the same place as a 1080 ft/s bullet, wouldn't that mean that you've only managed to find the setting that places the muzzle slightly lower when the faster bullet leaves? Seems to me that if you did indeed find a setting that stops the muzzle dead so it is in the exact same position all the time then this would make it even easier to see the different POI that you would get from the different velocities. If you had the perfect gun that did not move at all and launched the bullet absolutely perfectly every time, and you had the perfect bullet that flew perfectly every time, and had perfect conditions, no wind, etc, then a 1040 ft/s bullet is never going to have the same POI as a 1080 ft/sec bullet out at 42 yards, or 50 yards, or 100 yards. By the time the bullet reaches those distances there should be more than enough difference in POI to easily be observed and measured. Spending a few minutes with an online ballistics calculator, punching in an Eley Tenex EPS bullet of .224" diameter, 0.150 BC, no wind, a 100 yard zero, and results at 1 yard intervals showed easily noticable differences in rise, even with its single-decimal accuracy, even at the 42 yard mark.

I forget the finer details of Calfee's experiment right now, so I don't know if he was using a 42 yard zero too, or a 50 yard, or whatever else. But if he was indeed zeroing at 42 yards as well as having the target at 42 yards, then I guess the difference in POI in that situation would be a good deal smaller anyway, from what I can tell from fiddling with data and that calculator. There would still be some difference, but I guess in the real world there's the real world variations to deal with anyway. I guess it's hard to argue with results, and he seems to be very happy with the results he gets while following his method. But it just seems to me, keeping perfect theoretical ballistics in mind, that this method would still leave some room for improvement. Did he say this was a good starting point? Or that after doing this you were done fiddling with the tuner? Guess I should go read that one again and refresh my memory.
 
Hi Douglas,

You need to thank Roger Von Ahrens for this design and the machining job. My first thoughts only got Roger to thinking and figuring out the "right way" to make this setup.

Without getting into an "ad" .... you can contact Roger at Roger@robvon.com

He can fill you in on all the details .... Fred
 
Fred, Roger did a fine job with these weights, and Thanks to the both of you. This is a very easy system to use and it will help those looking for small increments. I've had the pleasure of testing one for Roger.

Take Care.....Joe
 
eley biathlon

midway shows em for sale on their site. box, brick, case.
 
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