Bob Kingsbury
New member
You can pretty well tell when a balance scale is fibbing, you can't with electronic scale
electric powder scales
- Thread starter Bob Kingsbury
- Start date
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I can tell is an electronic scale is not reading true easier than a balance beam. I've been using a RCBS 1500 Chargemaster since 2005 and have had no problems.
Some points;
An electronic scale doesn't work accurately in wind or for that matter in a heavy draft, like in Kelblys big barn.
Many electronic scales "drift", at least for a few minutes after powering on. I have an RCBS battery powered scale (made by Pac) that will drift for about 30 minutes. I also have an RCBS Model 90 (made by Ohaus) that never drifts. I also have another RCBS scale (again by Pac) that drifts for about 5 minutes then it works fine,
On all electronic scales, know where zero is. I do this by pressing the zeroing button as I start to use it again, like the next relay. I also have the powder pan weight written on it with a magic marker, so I can use it for a test weight.
Most electronic scales must be calibrated just after powerup. The two 1500's I have seem to always be in calibration, the smaller ones never are in calibration when powered up. The exception is the Model 90 which is no longer offered by RCBS, but new, these cost about $400, so I guess you get what you pay for.
So, always calibrate on powerup, and, always know where zero is and how to check it. A quick way of checking zero in a match is to keep a bullet handy of known weight, then just before using the scale, put the bullet in the pan as a check.
Digital scales, like digital micrometers and digital calipers will lull the user in a false sense of accuracy just because they display to several decimal places on their little screens.
Bravo!
Thou shalt treat thy precision scale like thy wonderfully accurate piece of engineering that it is.
I screwed up my first loading block of ammo with the MXX, had to pull them and redo.
I screwed up my second bunch as well and broke two kinetic pullers trying to redo these.........
By the third round I was gaining proficiency and I now can pull a random round from a block of 50 or 150 and check it to find it to be within ONE KERNEL OF POWDER from my norm.
Astounding
I now have a scale with which I have to choose WHICH scale weight to calibrate to since my three 50gr weights vary in value!
al
Thou shalt treat thy precision scale like thy wonderfully accurate piece of engineering that it is.
I screwed up my first loading block of ammo with the MXX, had to pull them and redo.
I screwed up my second bunch as well and broke two kinetic pullers trying to redo these.........
By the third round I was gaining proficiency and I now can pull a random round from a block of 50 or 150 and check it to find it to be within ONE KERNEL OF POWDER from my norm.
Astounding
I now have a scale with which I have to choose WHICH scale weight to calibrate to since my three 50gr weights vary in value!
al
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Al, you bought that scale at Zippo Sams Pawn and Trinket Shop didn't you. Zippo Sam used the different weights to calibrate according to whether he was buying or selling gold.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Francis, is this Jan's idea or yours??
Frankly I couldn't give a rats patootie WHICH of my three weights is "right".... The scale easily distinguishes between them and if I wanted to I could clean them....... it's just amazing to me that a scale of this cheapitude will weigh the oil on a dirty weight.
I don't care if I calibrate it to a rock from my driveway, IT WEIGHS KERNELS OF POWDER!!! I've gone back three days later and dumped my "base load" back into the pan to continue a loading sequence and it's just satisfying to see it settle at 40.04gr, RIGHT where I left it.......
I think this is cool
al
I don't care if I calibrate it to a rock from my driveway, IT WEIGHS KERNELS OF POWDER!!! I've gone back three days later and dumped my "base load" back into the pan to continue a loading sequence and it's just satisfying to see it settle at 40.04gr, RIGHT where I left it.......
I think this is cool
al
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Al,
I've been worrying about mentioning that I use an Asian battery scale called a Diamond that recognizes one kernel of Vhit N550. I verify it's working OK according to what load I'm using. If it's for the 210s, it's the 50 grain Sierra spitzer with the lead tip trimmed. If it's the 155s, I use the cast linotype slug I carved the tip off, etc.
Seeing I read the scales in grams, I have to think hard before I remember what the load is in grains.
John
B
BrandonK
Guest
Ive had two charge masters and the first had to different weight 50 gr calibration weights?? dont ask me I noticed it when my .5 moa 22-250 varmint load started going south and I double checked using a 5-0-5 scale. Called RCBS got the three week run around story and luckily for me a year later Cabelas exchanged it for me no questions asked witout a receipt. The second one I got is DEAD on!! I havnt had to recalibrate for quite some time, every time I check the calibration weights are rite on. I think with all things sometimes it comes down to quality control.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I don't care if I calibrate it to a rock from my driveway, IT WEIGHS KERNELS OF POWDER!!!
I think this is cool
al
Calibration determines the accuracy of an electronic scale. Repeatability is the other function of any measuring instrument. If you don't care what a given charge weighs (accuracy) but want all the charges to be the same (repeatability) then the driveway rock, or firm dog poop, will do just as well as the weights that came with the scale.
Well actually Jerry, firm dog poop DOES NOT offer the consistency which I desire........ First of all, who defines "firm"?? One man's "firm" is another man's "loosey-goosey".......The problem that I've encountered when using dog poop for ANY sort of calibration has been this problem of defining "firm" and then the ongoing problem of moisture loss......
Even with the poop firmly secured in saran wrap, taped and sealed to maintain moisture content, it just seems somehow to CHANGE over time. I've got a fairly sizable sample set to work with. I've got three control areas, my garage, a set in the sunroom under the big windows and then a set in the temp/moisture controlled gun safe.
My findings??
Poop doesn't really work well over the long haul.
ROCK good
POOP bad
Weights from various scales ALSO good even though they vary in weight as much as 2 one-hundredths of a grain. I guess that if I inadvertantly calibrate using the WRONG WEIGHT my new load could be off as much as a kernel of powder!
Using dog poop I've been off as much as 7.5 kernels of powder as little as 6mo later
disconcerting to say the least!
al
Even with the poop firmly secured in saran wrap, taped and sealed to maintain moisture content, it just seems somehow to CHANGE over time. I've got a fairly sizable sample set to work with. I've got three control areas, my garage, a set in the sunroom under the big windows and then a set in the temp/moisture controlled gun safe.
My findings??
Poop doesn't really work well over the long haul.
ROCK good
POOP bad
Weights from various scales ALSO good even though they vary in weight as much as 2 one-hundredths of a grain. I guess that if I inadvertantly calibrate using the WRONG WEIGHT my new load could be off as much as a kernel of powder!
Using dog poop I've been off as much as 7.5 kernels of powder as little as 6mo later
disconcerting to say the least!
al
B
BrandonK
Guest
Yeah I HATE poop
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
My findings??
Poop doesn't really work well over the long haul.
ROCK good
POOP bad
Using dog poop I've been off as much as 7.5 kernels of powder as little as 6mo later
disconcerting to say the least!
al
And folks, that is the latest poop on POOP!!
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Not finger lickin' good?
electronic parts
All electronic parts have a manufacturers tolerance. For instance standard resistors are classified as a 5% resistor- meaning they have a 5% tolerance. Precision resistors (identified by having a gold band on them) have a 1% tolerance. Electronic components do change values because of temperature changes so as stated above "rezeroing" often is important. Have any of you read a RCBS booklet that came with the 1500 scale/dispenser to see what their claim is as far as accuracy tolerances? You very well may be seeing 28.5 grains on the readout but there IS a tolerance of this being accurate. Assuming any electronic scale is 1% accurate means a 28.5 charge could have an error of .285 grains even though you are seeing a display of 28.5. If you are of the opinion that .3 of a grain will make a difference of how your cartridge groups on the target how can any electronic scale be dependable?
All electronic parts have a manufacturers tolerance. For instance standard resistors are classified as a 5% resistor- meaning they have a 5% tolerance. Precision resistors (identified by having a gold band on them) have a 1% tolerance. Electronic components do change values because of temperature changes so as stated above "rezeroing" often is important. Have any of you read a RCBS booklet that came with the 1500 scale/dispenser to see what their claim is as far as accuracy tolerances? You very well may be seeing 28.5 grains on the readout but there IS a tolerance of this being accurate. Assuming any electronic scale is 1% accurate means a 28.5 charge could have an error of .285 grains even though you are seeing a display of 28.5. If you are of the opinion that .3 of a grain will make a difference of how your cartridge groups on the target how can any electronic scale be dependable?
Boyd Allen
Active member
Speaking of calibration, a friend loaned me his Denver MMX 123 for a couple of days so that I could check a couple of RCBS 10-10 scales that I had tuned up. Realizing that it would be handy to have a way to recheck my scale against some known standard, I made a set of check weights from some coins, checked the brass weight on one of the 10-10s, recorded them on a piece of paper, and clipped the stacked coins and paper with a large spring clip. I keep this scale checking kit in the back of the drawer where my scale is stored. In case you're interested, the weights came out as follows.
1. penny 39.00
2. dime 34.90
3. Quarter 87.40
4. gold colored dollar coin 123.62
5. brass weight from 10-10 250.00
Obviously, these weights are for these particular coins only.
BTW the reason that my friend didn't miss his fancy scale for a few days is that it is too sensitive for the task that he bought it for. His reloading space is too drafty. On the other hand, his Chargemaster gets a workout every time he loads.
1. penny 39.00
2. dime 34.90
3. Quarter 87.40
4. gold colored dollar coin 123.62
5. brass weight from 10-10 250.00
Obviously, these weights are for these particular coins only.
BTW the reason that my friend didn't miss his fancy scale for a few days is that it is too sensitive for the task that he bought it for. His reloading space is too drafty. On the other hand, his Chargemaster gets a workout every time he loads.
Boyd you are sure right re the draftiness being an issue! I'm spoiled. I have a reloading room at my range that has internal heat and a door to close. Most days I must keep the door closed even though it's not an exterior door. This thang is so sensitive that when someone is standing around watching me reload (a rare occurrence) I must tell them to "stand still!" And the motion of my hand over the pan and around he reloading area will cause it to quiver. In fact my entire reloading routine is based on or more specifically set up with the aim of minimizing drafts over the scale.
brcman,
"If you are of the opinion that .3 of a grain will make a difference of how your cartridge groups on the target how can any electronic scale be dependable?"
What does this mean? Is it referring to your contention that an electronic scale is only accurate to 1%? Or to the idea that .3gr is significant? OR, that it's insignificant?
al
brcman,
"If you are of the opinion that .3 of a grain will make a difference of how your cartridge groups on the target how can any electronic scale be dependable?"
What does this mean? Is it referring to your contention that an electronic scale is only accurate to 1%? Or to the idea that .3gr is significant? OR, that it's insignificant?
al
Alinwa- many benchrest competitors are shooting a 6PPC and are using the Harrell measure or equivelent measure where a half a number change is .3 of a grain. Nearly all of them will swear that a .3 grain change in charge will take a load from a mediocer load to a load that will absolutely drill holes, so these people do need a dispenser that has better than a 1% accuracy. I was asking in my previous post what is the claims of the auotmated dispensers (such as the RCBS) with regards to their accuracy. If it is 1% how can this dispenser be reliable for loading with a 6PPC?