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BryanWang
Guest
I am currently using lee Challenger Press, I've never tried other presses, would a more expensive press give me lower runout?
thanks
thanks
Run out is caused by several things but, the sizing process, mainly the neck sizing portion of it is the main culprit. If your loading for a factory chambering then your sizing the neck down somewhere around .006"-.010" each time. Anything over .005" at a time starts to cause run out in the neck, the seating die will only magnify it, crocked in crocked out 
You can use a FL bushing die with at least two bushings. Make two passes through the die, first pass with the largest bushing, next with the smallest never sizing down the neck over .005" at a time. If you go that route purchase a Sinclair Arbor press and a Wilson Inline Seat Die to finish it off. For a factory rifle, that'll get your loaded rounds as straight as possible.
You can use a FL bushing die with at least two bushings. Make two passes through the die, first pass with the largest bushing, next with the smallest never sizing down the neck over .005" at a time. If you go that route purchase a Sinclair Arbor press and a Wilson Inline Seat Die to finish it off. For a factory rifle, that'll get your loaded rounds as straight as possible.
jackie schmidt
New member
Bryan
The answer is no. The result of good, straight cases is the product of the die, not the press.
If you saw what I use at Matches, (REALLY loose RCBS Partners), you would see what I mean.
Roscoe is correct, most of the run-out that is exibited in the finished round is really a product of the sizing proccess. If the case comes out of the full length-neck sizing die crooked, it will probably stay that way, regardless of what seater you use.
Many of us, (Benchrest Shooters), have even gone to dies that use no bushing, as many times the bushing die can be the culprit. The die I use, one I more or less made, is a solid one piece unit with a .265 neck to be used with my .269 neck chamber.
That die full length sizes, bumps the shoulder, decapps the primer, and sizes the neck in one stroke.......JACKIE
The answer is no. The result of good, straight cases is the product of the die, not the press.
If you saw what I use at Matches, (REALLY loose RCBS Partners), you would see what I mean.
Roscoe is correct, most of the run-out that is exibited in the finished round is really a product of the sizing proccess. If the case comes out of the full length-neck sizing die crooked, it will probably stay that way, regardless of what seater you use.
Many of us, (Benchrest Shooters), have even gone to dies that use no bushing, as many times the bushing die can be the culprit. The die I use, one I more or less made, is a solid one piece unit with a .265 neck to be used with my .269 neck chamber.
That die full length sizes, bumps the shoulder, decapps the primer, and sizes the neck in one stroke.......JACKIE
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Myself and a friend used to shoot in the Factory Class at our local BR matches several years ago. I used the Wilson Bushing Neck Dies and a Redding Press Body Die, my friend used a Forester FL Die with the neck honed to .334", his loaded rounds measured .336". His ammo always came out straighter by at least .001"-.002" when compared to mine. The two rifles were very close and we were neck and neck on several occasions, he would always prevail though. Straighter ammo do make a difference, good dies are that difference.
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Donald
Guest
I was all ready to buy one of the high priced BR compact aluminum presses. Until I went to a match and saw Jackies set up of three RCBS Partners all in a row. Then I understood it is not in the press but in the die. Don't make much difference what you use to push that case into the die, but the die better be spot on. A press will not make a straight case out of crooked one unless the die does it. Pay attention to the dies not the press. The fancy presses are for those that have lots of money to spend on toys. Spend your money on a custom sizing die made to your fired round. Sinclair has the Partner press for about $70, you can usually pick them up on ebay for about $40. I have two of them and love them.....Donald
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
What I have
found from my experience with the Challenger press versus say my latest used purchase a older RCBS JR2 is the cosistency of the seating depths. The RCBS seating depths are definately MORE consistent over the Challenger.
I used to think that presses had to be tight, not sloppy, to be good. Then I realized something just does not fit with the picture. I do feel that a positive stop when the ram has reached its maximum is an asset. This is what I believe is contributing to the consistent seating depths for me.
Talking about used RCBS Partner presses, I picked 2 up (one appeared to have never been used) and a RCBS 502 scale for 100.00. The scale new around here is 83.00 and the presses run around 85.00. So 253.00 X 1.12%(Govs share) gives us a new price of 283.36. Not bad for 100.00. First time I have ever fallen on a deal like that. I had a 100.00 bill in my pocket, grabbed the 3 items, set them down with the bill in front, the bill disappeared so did my items, out the door with me.
found from my experience with the Challenger press versus say my latest used purchase a older RCBS JR2 is the cosistency of the seating depths. The RCBS seating depths are definately MORE consistent over the Challenger.
I used to think that presses had to be tight, not sloppy, to be good. Then I realized something just does not fit with the picture. I do feel that a positive stop when the ram has reached its maximum is an asset. This is what I believe is contributing to the consistent seating depths for me.
Talking about used RCBS Partner presses, I picked 2 up (one appeared to have never been used) and a RCBS 502 scale for 100.00. The scale new around here is 83.00 and the presses run around 85.00. So 253.00 X 1.12%(Govs share) gives us a new price of 283.36. Not bad for 100.00.
First time I have ever fallen on a deal like that. I had a 100.00 bill in my pocket, grabbed the 3 items, set them down with the bill in front, the bill disappeared so did my items, out the door with me.
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realm-aw
Guest
improvement, not perfection
I learned from my sinclair concentricity gague that my resizer die worked better if I did not tighten it into the press, and if I left the decapping stem a bit loose. Add an O-ring under the die to keep it in place but leave it just loose enough to self align. Clearly this is not a capitol B benchrest solution like custom dies made to your chamber. My 204 prarie dog loads made in this fashion have a run-out of .0015, straight enough for varmints, and a measurable improvment over the .005 I was getting with dies tight in the press.
I learned from my sinclair concentricity gague that my resizer die worked better if I did not tighten it into the press, and if I left the decapping stem a bit loose. Add an O-ring under the die to keep it in place but leave it just loose enough to self align. Clearly this is not a capitol B benchrest solution like custom dies made to your chamber. My 204 prarie dog loads made in this fashion have a run-out of .0015, straight enough for varmints, and a measurable improvment over the .005 I was getting with dies tight in the press.
jackie schmidt
New member
Realm
That is straight enough for anything.
What you did by not tightning the die mimics what we do with the super loose Partners. It allows the die to work with no influence from the press.
I do let my shell holder seat against the die bottom,as this maintains a positive stop, regardless of the amount of slack in the linkage.
Boy,this is sure "anti-Benchrest" stuff, maybe even heresy. But it works.........jackie
That is straight enough for anything.
What you did by not tightning the die mimics what we do with the super loose Partners. It allows the die to work with no influence from the press.
I do let my shell holder seat against the die bottom,as this maintains a positive stop, regardless of the amount of slack in the linkage.
Boy,this is sure "anti-Benchrest" stuff, maybe even heresy. But it works.........jackie
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
I have noticed this as well. I use an RCBS Partner to size my ppc's and I seat their bullets with a Wilson/arbor press setup. But my RCBS Partner doubles as a seating press for bigger cartridges when I load them at the range and because it is made of aluminum, I can usually get it to seat the bullet .003-.004" more just by "flexing it" a bit more. I also have an RCBS JR2 press and it seats much more consistently even when I'm not paying attention to how much force I'm using.
bryan
Bryan Armatys
Here's the plan............
Let's pool our money and make a press for Jackie. Gold plated, engraved with Jackie's motto "Let The Chips Fall Where They May" and build in a 3 degree error. If he used it, maybe some of us could beat him now and then!
Naw, he'd smile, put it in his trophy case and continue to use those worn out green things.
BA
Let's pool our money and make a press for Jackie. Gold plated, engraved with Jackie's motto "Let The Chips Fall Where They May" and build in a 3 degree error. If he used it, maybe some of us could beat him now and then!
Naw, he'd smile, put it in his trophy case and continue to use those worn out green things.
BA
Boyd Allen
Active member
One place that I have noticed a difference is when expanding up .220 Russian case necks to 6mm for turning. For this job, I think that the opposite of the let it float rule is true. The worst that I have seen is a friend's Bonanza (excellent in all other respects, sizing etc.) and the best, my Harrell's Combo press. It seems that the closer die thread and shell holder fit pay dvidends for this job.
jackie schmidt
New member
Boyd
Blowing them out with a 22 bullet and a full case of 133 before turning does a lot better job. I know it is not practical for many to expand cases this way, but if you ever do, you will never go back........jackie
Blowing them out with a 22 bullet and a full case of 133 before turning does a lot better job. I know it is not practical for many to expand cases this way, but if you ever do, you will never go back........jackie
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BryanWang
Guest
I will try the "let the die loose" trick!
jackie schmidt
New member
Donald
Just a word of caution. We try to avoid making statements about placing pistol powder in any Rifle case. It got some of us in hot water a while back, and rightly so.
You can do it, just don't talk about it.........jackie
Just a word of caution. We try to avoid making statements about placing pistol powder in any Rifle case. It got some of us in hot water a while back, and rightly so.
You can do it, just don't talk about it.........jackie
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Donald
Guest
Thanks Jackie,
I should have know that.....Donald
I should have know that.
....Donald