Does A Benchrest Stock Make a Difference

B

bigredplane

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I've been looking at stocks. Most factory stocks the forearm isn't straight in line with the butt end of the stock. I see with BR stocks they are. Does this make a big difference when shooting benchrest. Here's a couple of picture of what I'm talking about.




BR-50stock.jpg



1813stock.jpg
 
That is called "cast off" and it can make a big difference on how a gun tracks in a rest. Ideally you want the gun to track straight back in the rest. In ARA and other classes that allow it, we use mostly one piece rests and having the gun track straight in them is what you want for sure.
 
It is Big,Big, Big. Not only how straight the stock is but how well everything is bedded into it. Most vastly underestimate the importance and I can't remember how many stories out there about about great equipment never living up to potential until redone "properly" in a good stock and then ,bingo, a good shooting rig.
 
I'm not sure it matters "if" the stock recoils the same every shot. Look at another perspective, the vertical. Most stocks cause a muzzle rise in the rest with each shot because the forend and the rear of the stock are not parallel. If this doesn't throw off the verticle I don't see why cast off would cause a problem with horizontal.

Back about 2000 I was shooting no recoil. One day while shooting with a friend he had me try his recoil setup. With the gun moved just a 1/8 inch back from the rest stop we could see the cross hairs rising alot. This led us to believe the poi would be much higher on his rest. It wasn't. Still shot 100's on the ARA target. Led me to believe the bullet must be leaving the muzzle before the gun moves hardly at all, perhaps only 1/64 of an inch. Don't know anyway to accurately measure that.
Rich
 
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Well Rich I'd say since most of the stocks we use have their heritage taken directly from the center fire world with many of the same principles at work, post your answer over on the CF board and then sit back and wait for the answers. I'd bet I know what most of them would be.
 
Tim, I don't think I posted the gospel, just my opinion. If you don't like it you don't have to believe the bullet leaves the barrel so quickly. Do your own test or believe anything you want. Have a good day. Rich
 
Actually I believe that has already been tested fairly extensively. I believe there was a piece done some years back published in PS mag. With bbl's in that 24 inch range, anyway, the gun starts to move before the slug is away.
 
I think I said that it moves before the bullet leaves the muzzle, the question is how much. I don't think it moves more than a 1/64, maybe 1/32, I also stated I don't have an exact measurement or know how to measure it. I've seen a bunch of matches won with factory stocks. given my druthers I would prefer a benchrest stock, I have a couple. But a 3 inch wide plate attached under the forend gives stability to factory stocks for a $1.95 that it would be hard to measure the difference of a $300 benchrest stock. When a gun is put in a benchrest stock all the benefit is not the stock, but most likely is bedded much better that the factory job. To many variables to make a guess.
 
Well Rich I've had more than one stock done by Bill Myers. He does them in a milling machine and is fanatical in trying to make sure not only the stock is dead straight but the gun that ends up in it is as well. I think he thinks there's a reason for it.
 
Not wishing to argue with anyone but I think a good straight BR stock does make a difference, and I also agree with Tim that the barreled action needs to be set into it "properly". For top level accuracy and consistentcy it helps scores. I'm referring to BR match winning capable rifles. I go to a lot of trouble to make sure the barrelled actions are properly set into the BR stocks and I wouldn't do it if I didn't think it was worth while, cause I'm kinda lazy:).
Of course there are folks out there that thinks it doesn't make a difference if the stock is crooked or not, and that's ok with me.
 
Slip & Slide . . .

I'm too old to be trusted with memory, but for what it is worth, I would like to offer some "rusty" memory on what I read in Precision Shooting about 30, maybe 40 years ago:

The author (and I don't remember his name) said that a 6mm PPC in the 10.5 lb. class would recoil about .007" by the time the bullet left the muzzle. With the 13.5 lb. gun the recoil distance would be .005".

As our rimfires have a muzzle velocity about 1/3 the speed of the 6 PPC,, my guess is that a 10.5 lb rimfire would recoil about .021" by the time the bullet was at the muzzle.

.021" is a little less than 3/128", or just a little more than 1/64".

When I attended my first SuperShoot at George Kelbly's range back: When was that? 1976? There was mist on the range on the first relay. I was reloading across from Manley Oakley and mentioned to him that I had a vertical string. He said, "Your front bag is wet and the stock is sticking. Are you using baby powder?" That was when I learned baby powder was used for something other that powdering a baby's butt.

So: Another question on recoil movement: What effect does the "slippery factor" have on rifle movement before the bullet is set free? I would say that uniform friction from shot is the important factor.

Joe Haller :)

I had a photographic memory but it was never developed.
 
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Recoiling straight to the rear.

I was talking to Butch Honisto on the phone a couple of years ago about the possibility of one of my rifles having a stock out of line with the barreled action. He suggested I turn the rifle over and run a plum line from the end of the barrel to the tip of the buttstock. The rifle: A grade 10 Suhl built up by Tim McWorter was not out of line. I cleaned the barrel and it started shooting again.

Joe :)
 
Joe Haller said:
I'm too old to be trusted with memory, but for what it is worth, I would like to offer some "rusty" memory on what I read in Precision Shooting about 30, maybe 40 years ago:

The author (and I don't remember his name) said that a 6mm PPC in the 10.5 lb. class would recoil about .007" by the time the bullet left the muzzle. With the 13.5 lb. gun the recoil distance would be .005".

As our rimfires have a muzzle velocity about 1/3 the speed of the 6 PPC,, my guess is that a 10.5 lb rimfire would recoil about .021" by the time the bullet was at the muzzle.

.021" is a little less than 3/128", or just a little more than 1/64".

When I attended my first SuperShoot at George Kelbly's range back: When was that? 1976? There was mist on the range on the first relay. I was reloading across from Manley Oakley and mentioned to him that I had a vertical string. He said, "Your front bag is wet and the stock is sticking. Are you using baby powder?" That was when I learned baby powder was used for something other that powdering a baby's butt.

So: Another question on recoil movement: What effect does the "slippery factor" have on rifle movement before the bullet is set free? I would say that uniform friction from shot is the important factor.

Joe Haller :)

I had a photographic memory but it was never developed.
Click to expand...


Was this shooting free recoil or was this shooting by pinning the gun?

I've found that shooting a .22 rimfire free recoil doesn't work in a gun with a 27 in. barrrel. I believe the gun moves long before the bullet get out of the barrel. I've been shooting lately by trying to control the recoil a little not stop it but control it. My gun have cast off in the stock. It seems to work for me better then free recoil. That''s why I asked about BR stocks shooting the way I am. I'm not sure you guys are all shooting free recoil or not.
 
If you're shooting that gun primarily from the bench then you need a different stock. The only likely way to use that stock is with a death grip on it which is about impossible to do consistantly, i.e. new stock.
 
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