Do Benchrest Shooters Need High Scores?

C

cris

Guest
I received an email from a respected benchrest shooter, who commented on my recent near-banning experience on another forum. It caused me to read the thread again on that forum and a like forum on Delphi since I was accused of being "Its not all about you."

Our choice of the international target was due to the challenge and to align ourselves with the world community. I admit, it was a choice with little input from those with experience from the AGBR and other past experiences. My hope was to avoid what the VFS game has evolved to, with targets that literally require a 250 plus a high X count to be competitive.

Do benchrest shooters need high scores? Do benchrest shooters like/enjoy/seek out targets that allow for high scores? Ultimately, is the international target what we should use going forward? Thanks for any comments.
 
Cris
Why shoot if you cant get a high score? Its the name of the game and everyone should know that.
Just my 2 cents
Larry B
 
First off let me say that for the initiator of the High Score post doesn't know diddly about benchrest. Any initiated Benchrest shooter immediatly knows that high scores is directly contrary to the sports true intent making THE STATEMENT as presented (lumping all shooters into that catagory) ......... false.

If you take Benchrest style shooting and adapt it to another venue that is something all together different.

Think small...............
 
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Personally I think it's a fine target. 250's should be an accomplishment to be proud of not just another target among a vast group of other 250's shot that day. I also like the idea that we can directly compete with others around the world.

Dennis
 
World Target Holbrook Sportsmen's Club

Cris,
Have no problem with the World targets. Looking forward to qualifying for the World postals and scoreline this winter. Will have an Nov. outdoor match for World Postal's.
Will be shooting indoor matches the first Sat of each month for scoreline.

Paul Bendix
Match Director
Holbrook Sportsmen's Club, Holbrook MA
 
I agree with Dennis. Cleaning a target or firing 740's out of 750 should be a real challenge. I also like the idea of being part of the World Org.

I wish someone would start a thread to re-vist the need for one piece rest in the US Open class. In my opinion few airgunners own one. If we are trying to grow the sport by allowing the higher power guns that have been excluded in metal target shooting that limits max to 20 ft lb., we do not need to add the additional cost of a one piece rest. The Unlimited (I have more money than God class ) is where they should be allowed. In discussions with some other club directors I find that I am not alone in my thinking.
 
Not Required

Bob,

A one piece rest is not required in any class. It is simply another option for those who do own one. Since we are trying to grow the sport, some of that growth will surely come from the rimfire ranks and this is where a one piece rest is a more common piece of equipment. An additional cost would become necessary if we mandated the front rest/rear bag to a rimfire shooter who only owned a one piece rest.

The USA Open class can be shot with a front rest and rear bag just as well and this comes from a number of shooters of some repute.
 
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One piece rest

Chris,

Allowing an item that could or does produce even a one point advantage, in a precision shooting game means you must have one, if you play to win.

I think if you were to poll the clubs on this issue you would find it interesting. We have more of a chance of drawing the hundreds of High power air rifles that have been excluded from competition than we do getting very many rimfire shooters that do not own an air rifle.

The un-limited class can be for the rimfire shooter who will chunk in another 2 grand on top of his one piece rest. The rimfire classes that allow a one piece on my observation at matches have the fewest participants.

Maybe we could poll our shooter base to see who owns one. If not, who would be willing to buy one to be competitive.


Bob
 
Bob,

There was a discussion/poll on the subject of one piece rests and most thought it was a good idea in the non-international classes.

Given that we have seen competitive scores shot from only bags and the hundreds of high power air rifles are typically shot from the same, it is difficult to see how making this piece of equipment allowable is somehow going to hinder the growth of the sport.

Shooters that believe something gives them a competitive advantage, real or not, usually end up with a new toy. Look at field target, silhouette and 10 meter shooters, most come up through the ranks and end up with the specialized equipment they feel is necessary.

Lastly, what makes you believe that one piece rests give a shooter a competitive advantage?
 
The one piece rest does not get a higher score.. It is easier to setup and move around the target.. The ARA has 573
shooters this year. The ARA has the MOST shooters pretty much every year. Lots of ARA shooters use a two piece rest set-up.

Kevin Kunkle
 
Benchrest shooting is having a gun that will put its shot in the same hole as its last shot and reading the conditions and compensating to put the next shot in the same hole, how it gets there is up to the shooter. weather in a one piece, two piece, sand bags, car jack or whatever. Its about looking at the flags and deciding when to pull the trigger.
 
one piece rests

I have used both type rests in competition both rimfire and Air rifle. The one piece is most easy to use as you suggest but you must remember it's origin and reason. It was to keep the gun in the same location for every shot and not influenced by any outside entity. It does just that. Now the reason we do not see so many of them is the price. They are not cheap at $800 plus. Many pellets can be bought for that money making rests and bags are a real bargin. I shoot much smaller groups with my one piece rest than bags and have found guns often need to be tuned for either.
 
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Cost,

My Pappas rest was about 600 dollars when I bought it.

My JJ Loh rest was 905 dollars and 125 for a mini gator rear bag.

Any top Quality rest is expensive.

Air rifle Benchrest is not about putting the pellet in the same hole. It is about hitting the Ten ring.

Kevin Kunkle
 
I just read that the ARA was one of the larger BR clubs around. They shoot 25 record shots at a target for a possible score of .....
2500 points. Yes, one hundred points per shot possible. So, it seems as though at least SOME benchrest shooter like high scores.

The target I was planning to experiment with would (at first at least, for purposes of easy use) allow for fifty points possible from 25 record shots.
That was the reason I suggested folks that preferred higher scores could multiply the results, as the ARA club does.

I think its strange that "shadowalker" would take the opportunity to point out that Chris, (the initiator of the high scores post) "doesn't know diddly" about benchrest. Heck, he knows enough to ask if folks "Do benchrest shooters like/enjoy/seek out targets that allow for high scores?" and is right away castigated for it?
 
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" Do benchrest shooters need high scores? Do benchrest shooters like/enjoy/seek out targets that allow for high scores? Ultimately, is the international target what we should use going forward? Thanks for any comments."

Weird questions Cris, I will answer with some questions: Do benchrest shooters like low scores? Do benchrest shooters prefer an easier target that give a false sense of achievement? Would it be better to just shoot within ones own Country or have the opportunity to shoot at International Matches ?
 
Bill,

Allow me to answer your questions with personal opinions.

Do benchrest shooters like low scores? High or low are relative terms, all I want is to know how my performance compares to the standard and my personal best.

Do benchrest shooters prefer an easier target that give a false sense of achievement? I certainly do not. If everyone is maxing out the target, in this case a 250, the standard tells me little and how do I raise the bar on my performance since now it would be a game of X counts and Xs add nothing to the score.

Would it be better to just shoot within ones own Country or have the opportunity to shoot at International Matches? Of course not. We have seen and experienced the benefits of qualifying and international competition and our shooters have spoken to the affirmative that this is what they want.

However, we do not have the same issues regarding power levels in this country, so we have other air rifle classes. Others still, prefer to shoot targets at 50 yards or more. A different target is more appropriate in these cases. In addition, there are several people taking the international target 10 ring dimension and creating a new target on 8.5" X 11" paper. Why? So that the target can be scanned with a more affordable scanner, imported to a PC and scored with better precision and without the human element. In any attempt to grow a sport, the base needs to be wide, several things must have appeal and advances in technology must be included. Hopefully, we are on the correct path to make that happen.
 
Maybe i am misunderstanding the question and the politics over there ? In any case do make sure you blokes stay within the WRABF the 2015 World Championships will be a trip of a lifetime for those lucky enough to qualify.
 
Fred you are a smart man with that statement ! One can only shoot tens if you have a small grouping gun..........you are most correct.

As for the High Score post LD you once again misinterpreted statements either by design or accident. My post was intended for you not Chris. You were the first to use the word High Scores in your post. If you did your homework you would have found the intent of the National Benchrest Association was to seek SMALL groups not big numbers. You are contaminating the intention and spirit of our sport with this ongoing nonsense. WE CHOSE TO REFINE THIS SPORT NOT ACCOMIDATE THOSE LESS SKILLED. Trust me we "Benchrest" shooters are not remotely interested in a larger target. I have no idea why you even brought this subject to this forum. It in no way pertains to Benchrest as we know and understand it. Off the hood of pickups or card tables is not Benchrest.
...............Please , Sir if you post here be accurate as we Benchrest shooters pride ourselves in truth and accuracy not at all like other forums that you are associated with. Leave those statements over there where they are welcome. Not here.

And while I am at it.......and I just love the logic.... I can't hit a small target so I am going to make it bigger. You could have at least doubled the spot size to accomidate the distance of 50 yds. thus keeping the skill level the same and producing better shooters....... The size of the 8 ring ? .........and don't go there with the scoring excuse. It stilll has to be viewed and evaluated no matter what the size.....bottom line is , it's either in or out!

Your logic makes no sense to me and does nothing to elevate the game.

Everybody feels good but still are bad shots.


Still say it's in the water! (Hitman)
 
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