Die touching shell holder

A

Aussie_Shooter

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I'm using a redding FL die with RCBS press.

Is it common for the die to touch the shell holder when adjusted?

All the instructions I have read recommends backing it off a 1/4 of a turn.
 
Not common, but not a problem if adjusted correctly
I have ground back a FLS die to get it to push the shoulder back
JRB
 
IMO the only correct method for adjusting a FL or body die, involves using some sort of specialized tool to measure from a point on the shoulder of the unsized case, to its head (done with primer removed first) and then gradually adjusting the die, in the press, until the case is 1-2 thousandths shorter in this dimension. To me, any other method, such as the one that you described is kind of like deciding how far to turn the steering wheel of a car by slowly turning it until you bounce off of the curb, and then backing off a little ;- Hornady sells a tool that I use for this sort of adjustment. In most cases, a quarter turn back from touching would give an adjustment that sizes a case too little if you are using moderately warm loads, and touching the shell holder would size it so much that case life would be lessened with repeated sizing. Doing it correctly requires some sort of tool. Undoubtedly this answer will bring out some do it by feel posts, but I disagree with this approach because it assumes that the die is small enough to to the job with the proper amount of shoulder set back (bump) , and it it is not, case shoulders will be set back too far, by the time that the desired feel is achieved.
 
I am using a le Wilson case gauge with a mitutoyo depth mic.

I have adjusted the FL die so that the head space is at its minimum.

I plan to shoot then re-measure the case expansion so I know the fire formed size of the cases for my particular chamber.

I can then neck size my brass rather than FL size.

Is there something wrong / missing in my methodology?
 
In my experience I have found that Redding dies are a bit too long, and most I had to sand down to get the proper should bump back. You need a tool to measure shoulder bump back, either a piece of barrel stub, chambered with the reamer used to chamber the barrel, or one of a few commercially available tools on the market. Harrell's gives a piece of brass with the shoulder angle for the case cut into it. I follow the method that Redding told me to follow, take the die and tape a sheet of 400 grit sand paper to a sheet of glass, holding the die straight on the sand paper work in figure 8 patterns until the proper length is achieved, I then work down to 2000 grit sand paper. Believe me a little can go a long way.
 
Generally, we full length size to maintain smooth bolt operation, and this is required because loads that take advantage of the full potential of a given caliber expand cases to the point where that is needed. The trick is having a FL die that just barely moves the brass so that a good fit in the chamber is maintained, and brass life is not shortened by overworking. Perhaps you could tell us more about your rifle? As far as setting a neck die is concerned, there is no need to back them off, because they are not built to push back the shoulder, or size the body. Generally, my least favorite kind of dies (based on the concentricity that they produce with unturned brass) are one piece neck dies, followed closely by one piece FL dies. Luckily, there are better alternatives. The one kind of die that may require backing off from the shell holder, by more than a quarter turn, is a conventional seating die that has a built in provision for crimping. I generally set these by screwing them down on a sized case that is in the raised position in the press, where it would be with a bullet fully seated, and carefully noting where I first start to feel the case, and then backing the die off perhaps a quarter turn from there, to make sure that there will be no crimp.
 
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Aussie_Shooter said:
I am using a le Wilson case gauge with a mitutoyo depth mic.

I have adjusted the FL die so that the head space is at its minimum.

I plan to shoot then re-measure the case expansion so I know the fire formed size of the cases for my particular chamber.

I can then neck size my brass rather than FL size.

Is there something wrong / missing in my methodology?
Click to expand...

First and foremost, I highly recommend you Full Length size each and every time you reload so that you're bringing the entire case back to its original dimensions.

[Neck sizing 50 cases for example, allows the body of those 50 cases to each expand to a dimension dissimilar to the others. Consistency from one case to another becomes nonexistent until fully resized once again and then over works the brass because the brass has to be moved a greater distance to meet the designer's original dimensions. Over working doesn't come from frequency, it a function of length or distance.]

Use this digital headspace gauge or similar gauge to help adjust your die so that the shoulder is set back .0005" to .0015" with the goal being .001": http://www.larrywillis.com/ This is the best and easiest to use gauge that I've found, after having tried others, for this task. Simply follow the instructions Larry provides.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Generally, we full length size to maintain smooth bolt operation, and this is required because loads that take advantage of the full potential of a given caliber expand cases to the point where that is needed. The trick is having a FL die that just barely moves the brass so that a good fit in the chamber is maintained, and brass life is not shortened by overworking. Perhaps you could tell us more about your rifle?

I am using a Remington 700 action in 308 that has had work on the chamber and new barrel

As far as setting a neck die is concerned, there is no need to back them off, because they are not built to push back the shoulder, or size the body.

I have not started using the neck dies yet. I was contemplating there usage after fire forming.

Generally, my least favorite kind of dies (based on the concentricity that they produce with unturned brass) are one piece neck dies, followed closely by one piece FL dies. Luckily, there are better alternatives. The one kind of die that may require backing off from the shell holder, by more than a quarter turn, is a conventional seating die that has a built in provision for crimping. I generally set these by screwing them down on a sized case that is in the raised position in the press, where it would be with a bullet fully seated, and carefully noting where I first start to feel the case, and then backing the die off perhaps a quarter turn from there, to make sure that there will be no crimp.
Click to expand...

I haven't used the neck bushings yet as I am waiting to understand what limits and tolerances I can get away with.

I think I'm getting more confused.
 
abintx said:
First and foremost, I highly recommend you Full Length size each and every time you reload so that you're bringing the entire case back to its original dimensions

[Neck sizing 50 cases for example, allows the body of those 50 cases to each expand to a dimension dissimilar to the others. Consistency from one case to another becomes nonexistent until fully resized once again and then over works the brass because the brass has to be moved a greater distance to meet the designer's original dimensions. Over working doesn't come from frequency, it a function of length or distance.]

Use this digital headspace gauge or similar gauge to help adjust your die so that the shoulder is set back .0005" to .0015" with the goal being .001": http://www.larrywillis.com/ This is the best and easiest to use gauge that I've found, after having tried others, for this task. Simply follow the instructions Larry provides.
Click to expand...

to SAMMI Spec yeah?
 
Take a little off the shell holder if you can not get the proper head space due to the fact the die bottoms out on the shell holder.
 
Kent Harshman said:
Just curious, Francis, why would you be concerned about using this shell holder interchangably with standard ones later on...???
Kent
Click to expand...

If you have more than one shell holder, it could be very problematic if you set the die up on one shell holder, and then switched to the shorter shell holder. Lets put it this way you would find out latter that your pushing the shoulder back more than you desire, or seating your rounds deeper.
 
I recently measured 17 shellholders purported to be "similar" in that they were listed for the same cartridge usage.....

They weren't

al
 
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