Dialing in barrel with a long headstock/spindle length?

[mks]

I would be interested to know if anyone has done ladder tests with the same barrel clocked at 6 and 12. (Just another one of those tests that I would do if I had more time...) Theory says that the 6 clocked barrel gives more compensation, because the line of the muzzle blast force runs higher above the center of gravity of the rifle. If the rifle needs more compensation, then 6 should help. If not, then 12 is better. It would also be a way, although inconvenient, of tuning for different yardages, i.e., 12 for 100 yards and 6 for 200 yards.

 

[CMaier]

Lee,
Did anyone mention jackie nearly set a national record in group, shooting a 30 br, chambered his way ??

I understand the hole impact thing I truly do, however how hard is it to reach up and give the scope a couple extra clicks? during my testing the worst Impact shift I came across was only 2 inches. It took me about 3 seconds to correct that with a couple fouling shots that we are going to take anyway. I'm not advocating not timing the barrel. I always do, however ill never be able to rap my mind around indicating at both ends. I just cant see how a point 20 inches away from the work end has any real barring. Lee

 

[Zebra13]

Lee,
Did anyone mention jackie nearly set a national record in group, shooting a 30 br, chambered his way ??

CMaier,

So how do we explain somebody like Bob Brackney? Brackney and Brackney built guns have accounted for a lot of wood through the years and unless he's changed his ways, he chambers barrels using the steady/tailstock method. I believe the MacMillan .009 rifle was chambered the same way. We could probably peruse the record books and find record groups that were shot by rifles chambered in 40-eleven different ways.

My point? I think it's more about the Indian than the arrow. I think Jackie nearly setting a national record is more indicative of his shooting ability than his chambering method. In fact, if you look at the pictures of Jackie chambering a barrel, you can see he chucks directly on the barrel. No pivots, wires, or anything else. Now some would tell you that he's toiling about in the dark ages because he does that and doesn't have some sort of pivoting affair between the chuck and the barrel. In fact, if I'm correctly picturing how he holds his muzzle captive in the spindle, he may be bending his barrels! And yet he cleans his fair share of clocks on the range, with rifles not chambered in the "ideal" manner...

Kelly Johnson once said, "It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to work".

Ben Hogan said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get".

But chambering discussions are sure a fun way to whittle away the winter days, aren't they?

Justin

 

[CMaier]

Yes and at one time a front engined race car won the Indy 500,
but over time some people were willing to try new things, to learn .
To win by not following the crowd.
winter in socal is never un-nerving...just cloudy.

CMaier,

So how do we explain somebody like Bob Brackney? Brackney and Brackney built guns have accounted for a lot of wood through the years and unless he's changed his ways, he chambers barrels using the steady/tailstock method. I believe the MacMillan .009 rifle was chambered the same way. We could probably peruse the record books and find record groups that were shot by rifles chambered in 40-eleven different ways.

My point? I think it's more about the Indian than the arrow. I think Jackie nearly setting a national record is more indicative of his shooting ability than his chambering method. In fact, if you look at the pictures of Jackie chambering a barrel, you can see he chucks directly on the barrel. No pivots, wires, or anything else. Now some would tell you that he's toiling about in the dark ages because he does that and doesn't have some sort of pivoting affair between the chuck and the barrel. In fact, if I'm correctly picturing how he holds his muzzle captive in the spindle, he may be bending his barrels! And yet he cleans his fair share of clocks on the range, with rifles not chambered in the "ideal" manner...

Kelly Johnson once said, "It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to work".

Ben Hogan said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get".

But chambering discussions are sure a fun way to whittle away the winter days, aren't they?

Justin

 

[skeetlee]

Lee,
Did anyone mention jackie nearly set a national record in group, shooting a 30 br, chambered his way ??

Jackie is a fine shooter for sure. Much better than ill probably ever be! I would love to have Jackie's ability behind a rifle. Jackie is also a master machinist, and I am not. However, None of this, means I cant think for myself. Indicating a point 20 plus inches away from the business end of a barrel, ill never be able to rap my mind around. I'm not saying Jackie is wrong and I am right, I'm just saying when I think for myself, this doesn't make sense. And as long as your throwing out achievements, ill add a couple of my own. The last two years at the St Louis Benchrest club, a shooter that has been shooting my barrels has won shooter of the year. Not once, but twice! Second place, or runner up last year was also shooting barrels I chambered for him. Id say I am doing ok. I would also say that anyone that can feel .005 or even .015 of barrel run out at the muzzle during recoil has some serious shooting abilities. My method is working for me and the folks I'm doing work for, so for now I don't see any reason to change. That's the bottom line for me. Lee

 

[Mike Bryant]

I used a shell reamer and reamed the spindle bore on my lathe. Then built a dead center that used pilot bushings to slip into the rear of the spindle. Lock it down with one of the four set screws tapped in the rear of the spindle. When it comes to the muzzle end of the barrel it's not that critical as to how closely it's centered. If it was, you couldn't push it over to get two spots lined up on the chamber end. IMO and that's all it is my opinion, the most critical part of a chamber is having the throat indicated in. I've indicated barrels in just about any way you can including pushing the muzzle out of line to get the butt end running true at the throat and start of the bore. Haven't seen it makes any particular difference as long as the throat is centered in the bore when the chamber is finished. If the throat comes out where it's off centered, freebore longer on one side that the other, more than likely the barrel won't shoot. As with everything, there are exceptions to the rules. It's a lot better feeling when you're done with the chamber to run a dial indicator into the neck and have no runout, run it at the back of the chamber and not have any runout. Then look at the throat with a borescope and have the throat is centered. That at least gives you an idea it should shoot. The final check and the one that counts is how it shoots on paper.

 

[Zebra13]

Yes and at one time a front engined race car won the Indy 500,
but over time some people were willing to try new things, to learn .
To win by not following the crowd.
winter in socal is never un-nerving...just cloudy.

CMaier,

I think you missing my point. I'm not anti-progress, and thank God for the experimenters in bench rest...they've given us every major accuracy advancement in the past 50 years. Hell...Gordy Gritters is one of those experimenters who came up with a different way of chambering...and his method gets poo-pood by some. But it is my humble opinion that ability and practice mean more on the paper than your chambering method. Some would have you believe that if you don't chamber a certain way, you're an All-Conference jackoff. And I give you Bob Brackney, whose chambering method is generally considered less accurate than chambering through the headstock. But he wins, as do his rifles. How do we explain that?

Cloudy in SoCal? It was about 80 in CenCal today. The wife and I took the boat up to Nacimiento and caught about 20 Spotted Bass for Valentine's Day. Am I a romantic or what?

Justin

 

[Louis.J]

Throwing an indivduals accomplishments on the table proves nothing as far as one's quality of workmanship is concerned. I have seen good competitors work around slight inaccuracys in workmanship do some amazing shooting by using their abilities to understand and shoot the conditions presented to them making a good rifle look great. Checking one's work when completed as outlined by Jackie Schmidt is the key for judging the quality of ones workmanship! Just as I have seen good workmanship look great I have also seen outstanding workmanship simply look good all based on the individual sitting behind the rifle.

 

[thisguy65]

I have to ask this for setup.

If I have a barrel that is say 12" long blank that can't be any shorter. If I made a sleeve with set screws to extend the barrel. I think this would work to set the 2nd point to chamber or cut the muzzle.

If having a full blank that was just a little short I would thread the bore of the muzzle for a brass or steel rod. I'm more incline for steel or alum. instead of soft brass. This would allow me to cut the tenion and then I could switch to a extension that is more solid, thread round bar that is thread (ID) to screw on to the tenion.

 

[CMaier]

thread the muzzle BORE..NO.
OD YES

I have to ask this for setup.

If I have a barrel that is say 12" long blank that can't be any shorter. If I made a sleeve with set screws to extend the barrel. I think this would work to set the 2nd point to chamber or cut the muzzle.

If having a full blank that was just a little short I would thread the bore of the muzzle for a brass or steel rod. I'm more incline for steel or alum. instead of soft brass. This would allow me to cut the tenion and then I could switch to a extension that is more solid, thread round bar that is thread (ID) to screw on to the tenion.