Dialing in a barrel

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
The other day as I was indicating in a barrel, I found that when I moved my indicator rod rearward, I was unable to move the reading on the dial of the indicator (a tenth Starrett) using the screws in my rear spider. The spider is made from bronze and is a slip fit over the spindle, held fast by three healthy set screws. Did I have the jaws of the 4 jaw too tight?

Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
The other day as I was indicating in a barrel, I found that when I moved my indicator rod rearward, I was unable to move the reading on the dial of the indicator (a tenth Starrett) using the screws in my rear spider. The spider is made from bronze and is a slip fit over the spindle, held fast by three healthy set screws. Did I have the jaws of the 4 jaw too tight?

Thanks,

Pete
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If you are "jacking" the outboard spider, indicating the inboard bore and chucking flat on the 4-jaw you have the setup all wrong. If this is the case use pre 1982 copper pennies between the chck jaws and the barrel and chuck on ONLY about 3/16" of the pennies. This will hold the barrel firmly but will let it pivot as needed.



2a9v0h0.jpg
 
Yea what Jerry said. I have found that over tightening any setup including a four screw spider can distort the barrel on the inboard side.
 
Yup!

I made some lovely split aluminum rings from some tubing that was a close fit to the OD of the barrel. I had the whole ring on the chuck jaws. I thought this might be the case but being a novice and all - - - -.

Thank Dave and Jerry for the help. Maiden Voyages are usually interesting, eh? I have probably watched at least 100 hrs of various machining instructional vids, some of which are chambering vids, still stupidity rears it ugly head. :(

Pete
 
Dialing a Barrel

this caution ( distorting barrel with rear spider )...explains the beauty of a steady rest.....
 
I don't have any issues with any of this

stool said:
or the limited learning ability of some gunsmiths ??
pete is new and asked a question...you have no excuse...
just stop. at this point you are being childish
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I have owned my old 10L since 1966 and have had a rudimentary knowledge of machining since then. I decided, after all these years, to try to learn how to actually do some meaningful work with it. Essentially, I tired of: 1. waiting for others to do work for me, 2. paying the fees charged and 3. the cost of freight makes trade with others nearly impossible; at least it is at a point where I nearly refuse to pay any longer. So, I will learn what I must to DIY. If I wreck a thing or two in the process, it's just the cost of the education. I'd rather that than pay it to UPS or USPS. Besides, I need something to keep me out of the Bars :) .

I appreciate every comment made as well. I believe all of them are well intended.

Pete
 
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Yeahh Pete, that freight/ins thing is HUGE.

It'll easily help pay those learning curve dues :)
 
Pete Wass said:
I have owned my old 10L since 1966 and have had a rudimentary knowledge of machining since then. I decided, after all these years, to try to learn how to actually do some meaningful work with it. Essentially, I tired of: 1. waiting for others to do work for me, 2. paying the fees charged and 3. the cost of freight makes trade with others nearly impossible; at least it is at a point where I nearly refuse to pay any longer. So, I will learn what I must to DIY. If I wreck a thing or two in the process, it's just the cost of the education. I'd rather that than pay it to UPS or USPS. Besides, I need something to keep me out of the Bars :) .

I appreciate every comment made as well. I believe all of them are well intended.

Pete
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Pete, does your lathe look like this and what is the spindle bore diameter;

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page8.html
 
Pete Wass said:
I have owned my old 10L since 1966 and have had a rudimentary knowledge of machining since then. I decided, after all these years, to try to learn how to actually do some meaningful work with it. Essentially, I tired of: 1. waiting for others to do work for me, 2. paying the fees charged and 3. the cost of freight makes trade with others nearly impossible; at least it is at a point where I nearly refuse to pay any longer. So, I will learn what I must to DIY. If I wreck a thing or two in the process, it's just the cost of the education. I'd rather that than pay it to UPS or USPS. Besides, I need something to keep me out of the Bars :) .

I appreciate every comment made as well. I believe all of them are well intended.

Pete
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Hi Pete I appreciate a man with a good attitude.

I am starting to learn on a SB 13 for the same reasons. Good luck.
Stephen
 
sdean said:
Hi Pete I appreciate a man with a good attitude.

I am starting to learn on a SB 13 for the same reasons. Good luck.
Stephen
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Stephen, your SB13 will pose different considerations that Pete's will. The SB13, even the 3 pulley headstock version is too long through the headstock to allow benchrest length barrels to be chambered THROUGH the headstock. There are two other options for smithing barrels on lathes of that size.

1) In the headstock chambering in which you turn a place on the muzzle for a bushing that will fit that OD and the lathe spindle ID to stabilize that end, then proceed with alignment and machining of the chamber end.

2) Chambering in the steadyrest. There are at least 3 methodologies of steadyrest chambering that will work. Bill Larson and others here can describe those methods better than I can.

All three setup methods will work and work well if you simply take your time, think the process through, and by all means be careful.

Always wear good eye protection and do not wear loose fitting clothes that can be grabbed by moving parts of the machine. I witnessed, onetime, unfortunately, an experienced machinist get his left arm TOWRN off, it ain't pretty.
 
It's a 10L

JerrySharrett said:
Pete, does your lathe look like this and what is the spindle bore diameter;

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page8.html
Click to expand...

My Lathe is a 10L Tool Room lathe with a 30" long bed. It has the large spindle hole. It came to me with the usual South Bend chucks, steady rest, follower, several face plates dogs and a bunch of other stuff. The lathe was built in 1943, a year before me, as it turns out. Since then, I have been accumulating the tooling I need to fit barrels to my rifles. I have all of it now, pretty much.

Back in the late 60's I worked for several Machinetool Rebuilders. The last one I worked for had me strip my machine and we sent the bed out to the grinder. We re-assembled, scraping as necessary and I have been using it off an on since. I had learned just enough about running a lathe to be dangerous I guess and have been trying to learn for real how to do it over the past few months via Youtube , a friend who is a Tool & Die Maker and books. There are a number of , what I believe to be, great How To guys who have made nice instructional vidios and have them up on Youtube. My favorites are, Tubalcain and Tom's Techniques. Both are former Metal Shop Teachers and do a great job of explaining things. Tom's is particularly good because he has a couple of "projects" he does and shows, step by step, how he does it as well as the basic, how to grind tools, how to do machining functions on both a lathe and mill and explains how the "math" works, as does Tubalcain.

The hard thing @ my age is remembering what I have seen but it's coming along.

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
The hard thing @ my age is remembering what I have seen but it's coming along.

Pete
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Pete, tell me about it!! I am on some heart medicine that has what memory I ever had screwed up. I never was good at names even when young. Phone numbers, formulas, stuff like that I was OK but not names.


BTW, sho did you work for, a builder or a rebuilder?
 
Thank's Jerry. Right now my interests are long range and hunting. I figure I can do a 30" barrel through the headstock and less depending on how narrow I can make a spider to replace the chuck. For sporter weight barrels that Bob Pastor like long truing jig looks interesting. My lathe is 48" between centers so I can do any length in the steady.

I don't look at a long headstock as a minus but as a challenge and a learning experience. That is what I mean by a good attitude and open mind and proving things to oneself. My next journey.

Once one learns who to pay attention to, this forum is a great place.
Sorry for the hijacking Pete.
 
sdean said:
I don't look at a long headstock as a minus but as a challenge and a learning experience. That is what I mean by a good attitude and open mind and proving things to oneself. My next journey.

Sorry for the hijacking Pete.
Click to expand...

There ya' go!!

Pete is a good egg and will enjoy the discussion.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Pete, tell me about it!! I am on some heart medicine that has what memory I ever had screwed up. I never was good at names even when young. Phone numbers, formulas, stuff like that I was OK but not names.


BTW, sho did you work for, a builder or a rebuilder?
Click to expand...

Jerry,

I began working for Pratt & Whitney Machine Tool in West Hartford, Ct in early 1967. I worked there for about a year and was laid off, with several other guys. I found a job with another Rebuilder, Dick Staples, who was an upstart business. Worked there for about a year and things got lean again so I found another job with a man who became one of my very best friends, Walt Bradburry. Walt was one of those guys who could do everything. He had apprenticed in a paper mill under an old Millwright who taught him everything from Blacksmithing to fine machining. The Machine Tool Rebuilding Business then ran adverse to the economy. When the economy was booming, nobody shut any machines down unless they broke. That was in the days before computers and Milwaukee Matics were the leading edge, as I remember.

I became discouraged with the situation so got involved in the Motorcycle Accessories Sales Business and never went back to being a Mechanic. My heart always belonged back there, with the machines but you know how life goes, eh? If I could go back, I would want to be a guy like keith Fenner, with a Job Shop and work on whatever anyone brought me to do. It would be damn interesting even if it wasn't a place to accumulate wealth. Keith Fenner's Youtubes are a joy for me, at least, to watch.

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
Jerry,

I began working for Pratt & Whitney Machine Tool in West Hartford, Ct in early 1967. I worked there for about a year and was laid off, with several other guys. I found a job with another Rebuilder, Dick Staples, who was an upstart business. Worked there for about a year and things got lean again so I found another job with a man who became one of my very best friends, Walt Bradburry. Walt was one of those guys who could do everything. He had apprenticed in a paper mill under an old Millwright who taught him everything from Blacksmithing to fine machining. The Machine Tool Rebuilding Business then ran adverse to the economy. When the economy was booming, nobody shut any machines down unless they broke. That was in the days before computers and Milwaukee Matics were the leading edge, as I remember.

I. It would be damn interesting even if it wasn't a place to accumulate wealth. Keith Fenner's Youtubes are a joy for me, at least, to watch.

Pete
Click to expand...

We had a few P&W #2A jigborers. That was I in the P&W line,
 
B.Larson said:
this caution ( distorting barrel with rear spider )...explains the beauty of a steady rest.....
Click to expand...

Or the wisdom of using a spider on the front or at least wrapping some copper wire around the barrel so it can rock a bit in the 4Jaw.

Semper Fi,

WallyW
 
I have a front Spider:

It was made to attach to my 4 jaw back plate. I tried using it for this job. I got the barrell dialed in with it BUT, there is .037" of runout @ the outboard end and it sure looked wierd under power. This spider is a perhaps 8" or 10" long aluminum tube with 2 sets of 4 set screws spaced 5 or 6" apart. There was zero runout on the face of the backer plate with the Spider off it.

I think the design is good but the execution left something to be desired. I don't think a couple of pounds of aluminum would cause the backer plate to sag that much, eh?

I happen to have a small stash of antique pennies so I am all set for next time. I will also try to take that runout out of my Spider when I get a chance. I came down with my first Cold in three years Saturday night so I am laying low today. My shop is 40 minutes away so I will get under way soon and do the crown.

The front Spider seems somewhat easier to use than going back and forth, chuck to tail, from what I could see.

Pete
 
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