D1-5 spindle -vs- others and camlock ???

D

DOUG DOTY

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Can some one help me understand the different mount setups and what is meant by camlock or not when reading specifications.

I see that the Griz G4003G has the " D1-5 camlock mount " but it is the only one in their line up that does, I am just concerned this might be odd ball or is it a good thing ?? My best take is that is is an upgrade from typical in this size machine. Any concerns ?? Camlock ??
 
DOUG DOTY said:
Can some one help me understand the different mount setups and what is meant by camlock or not when reading specifications.

I see that the Griz G4003G has the " D1-5 camlock mount " but it is the only one in their line up that does, I am just concerned this might be odd ball or is it a good thing ?? My best take is that is is an upgrade from typical in this size machine. Any concerns ?? Camlock ??
Click to expand...


D1-x spindle mounts (D1-4, D1-5, etc) is the defacto standard spindle mount for engine lathes.

See below for other spindle mount specs;

http://www.buckchuckusa.com/products/manual-chucks-atsc-mounting-plates.html
 
The bigger the number D1- #, the bigger ( and more expensive) the chuck.

They have posts with a half moon notch machined into them that "'cams" into a hole in the spindle for each post- a D1-4 has 4 as does the 5 (I think). The posts rotate by using your chuck key and rotating them. They are quick and simple to change out- if you are switching back and forth between a scroll chuck and a 4-jaw they are nice.
 
Here is another question that will make it obvious just how novis I am to lathes but what is the diferance in situations when you would want a 4 jaw -vs- a 3 jaw chuck, I really don't know. Sorry to be so dumb.

Real anxious to get the new 4003G in this week.
 
DOUG DOTY said:
Here is another question that will make it obvious just how novis I am to lathes but what is the diferance in situations when you would want a 4 jaw -vs- a 3 jaw chuck, I really don't know. Sorry to be so dumb.

Real anxious to get the new 4003G in this week.
Click to expand...

Simple explanation;

In almost all situations a 4 jaw chuck is classified and is refered to as an "independant chuck" where each chuck jaw moves independant of the others, thus allowing clamping of irregular shapes or the positioning of material off-center to a chucks center boreline. A 4 jaw can do just about everything a 3 jaw accomplishes but at a slower rate, the reverse is not true.

In almost all situations a 3 jaw or scroll chuck is refered to as a "timed" mechanism that moves all the chuck jaws in unison. Your common hand drill chuck fits into this class of 3 jaw chucks............Don
 
True,

the D-1-5 on the G4003G is a bit more expensive and not as common as the -4 on machines of that size. But in its defense, it's a more robust mount as I see it and more in keeping with the 1 5/8" spindle bore. The D-1-4's appear more commonly on 1 3/8" bore spindles. The D-1-4 mount has 3 cam lock pins, while the D-1-5 uses 6 pins. I'ts got to be a stronger mount, and I rather imagine Grizzly had this in mind when specifying this lathe.

In the nearly 1 year I've owned mine, I've been able to add a Bison collet chuck with D-1-5 adaptor and a 6" Bison set-tru also with adaptor. All parts were readily available from MSC and/or Enco and installed with no problem. MSC also carries D-1-5 direct mount 4-jaw chucks, so I see no availability problem with good quality tooling there.

So even if this is a bit "oddball," I see it as a good thing and it hasn't led to any problems, at least for me.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, we can put this one to rest, I did not know before so this was great help to me.

I tracked my machine and it looks like it will show up tomorrow or Wed. at the latest. Will probably run a new circuit tomorrow night if the griz is not here yet. I have a couple of bushings to spin uo right away for the race car.
 
Dusty.. If your question was directed to me, I didn't HAVE to change the chuck, I wanted to upgrade a bit. The G4003G comes with a (by many standards) adequate 3- jaw chuck installed. Mine ran out about .003 - .004" which isn't bad. The 8" 4-jaw worked very well too, although it exhibited a good bit of axial runout... jaw surfaces weren't particularly parallel with spindle axis. I know there are workarounds for this, but I just wanted nicer stuff to work with, that's all. As for the collet rig, neither chuck would accomodate stock in the smaller sizes like 1/4" and smaller, so that became a bit of a necessity for doing smaller work.
I think that installing a 6-jaw as you suggested would have run the price up a bit too....
 
it just sucks that you buy something set up to do a particular job and then have 2 chucks laying in the floor when you actually get it ready to go. if I was buying a new rig tomorrow that's what it would probably be tho. looks like it will do the job quite well.
 
All my lathes have at least 3 chucks, faceplates, plus collet setups for them. It is a matter of using the right tool for the job. If you are only going to have on chuck, get a 4 jaw, I leave one on each of the lathes at work when I am on leave to keep untrained people (engineers) from using the lathes.
 
Crow99,

It is pretty common to have the chucks on import lathes a bit "off" as purchased. Part of the setup of a new machine is to go through the whole thing and square and fit all the chucks, etc.

Inside the three jaw, towards the back of the chuck inside the jaws is a place to fit a sturdy washer. This is there to allow you to put tension on the jaws through the scroll and still have nothing in the jaws. Choose a diameter close to what you think will be your most common sized stock and open the jaws (via washer) to the opening you want to be most accurate. Then mount a tool post grinder (or small die grinder) and grind the jaws true while the lathe is running. now the chuck will run within a thousanths or so around this diameter. It may be better at all diameters depending on the accuracy of your scroll. Four jaw models can benefit from the same treatment, but there is not a place to tighten down on inside the jaw area, so your have to place a ring on the outside of the jaws to tension things before grinding.

A six jaw chuck doesn't do much except provide a more even grip to delicate tubing (over a three jaw).

I usually mark my chucks to the same position on the spindle (D1-4) with a few punch marks. This ensure that I mount the chuck in the same position each time. Spindle noses need to be kept clean and without chips, dings. etc.

No chuck replaces a good collet set for convenience with round stock. There are simple and quick change collet holders and also faceplate adapter mounts. On an import lathe you may need to grind the collet adapter taper to acheive dead nuts accuracy, or true the adaptor plate, just like the chucks. This is all part of learning your machine and how to get accurate results.

Scott
 
Scott... I agree with all you've said. But I don't have a toolpost grinder and probably won't for a while.... This would be a good method of correcting the axial runout on my 4-jaw.

I really need the 4-jaw or a set- tru type 3 jaw (yes, I got the 3 and not the 6 jaw..) for working on barreling and chambering. I need the adjustability.

And although I probably could have gotten along with just the adjustable 3-jaw (set- tru), I agree that the collets are very useful as well, and I'm glad to have them.

And yes, I have punch marked the chuck mounts so they index the same each time I set them up... this really works. If you index them differently between setups, you can often see the difference. And I am obsessive about keeping the spindle nose clean..

"Learning" the machine, any machine, is part of the "operator breakin" period.. kind of a seat of the pants or "feel" sort of thing. I've had times when something just did or did not feel right.. and usually I was correct.

I think I'm getting there....
 
Crow99,

A dremel tool held in a clamp on the tool post will do to square things up - you only need to take a few thousanths. Years ago I got a clamp that was designed just for holding dremels in the lathe. It encircles the body of the motor and is then mounted to the lathe with a with a square for the tool holder. A thumbscrew allows some vertical adjustment between the square and dremel body. This is not very rigid, but I have used it for small jobs many times. At the current price of hand grinders you can easily have one in the shop.

I can't afford a full blown Dunmore either....

Sounds like you will do well with your new machine.

Scott
 
I made a clamp to hold the flex shaft attachment of a Dremel for my home shop. The shaft is only about .75"dia and straigt, much easyer to make than for the Dremel itself.
 
Thanks for the ideas on the grinder. Someday when I have time I will try this. I have a Dremel as well as a Foredom tool with flexible shaft and foot control. The G4003G rpms bottom out at 70. Is this too fast for grinding? It works very well for threading and reaming though.

Although this is a bit OT, I have also been very careful in adjusting the headstock bearings. I tried the method in the manual, and while it worked fairly well, I think I found a way that is better: I have one of those infrared thermometers that "reads" surface temp where the red dot is projected. It took a couple of tries, but I adjusted the bearings so that the headstock temp. around the bearing rises to 85 degrees F. after running at 600 rpm for 15 or 20 minutes. I've noticed that when starting out at ambient temp (maybe 65 deg. or so) that I can get around .0002" deflection in the spindle, while at 85 deg., I get .0000. I've had it adjusted this way for about 6 months now and all is working well.... and no screeches, squeaks, or hot spots that I can tell. Using Mobil DTE oil, ISO VG 68...
 
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