Copper Fouling
- Thread starter sbindy
- Start date
sbindy
Steve B
My normal cleaning routine is to use a patch with BBS after every ten shots and it works well at keeping the carbon fouling under control, and the copper to an extent. I fire the first shot over a bore that has had one dry patch run through it so that there is still a bit of Butch's in there instead of being totally dry.
A
abintx
Guest
sb ...
You'll never prevent copper build up, only retard it. It's inevitable. However, a good lapped custom barrel keeps it well under control with proper cleaning techniques described by some of these top shooters, barrel makers and gunsmiths: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html. Art
My question about copper fouling is how to prevent its buildup in the first place. Is there any method of bore prep that anyone has found to work to delay copper fouling? Any advice is appreciated
You'll never prevent copper build up, only retard it. It's inevitable. However, a good lapped custom barrel keeps it well under control with proper cleaning techniques described by some of these top shooters, barrel makers and gunsmiths: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html. Art
J
jo191145
Guest
If your shooting a properly handlapped custom tube and getting abnormal copper fouling switching powder/bullet combo can help greatly. A slightly sootier burning powder will help.
If its a slightly rough factory tube I've found a method that seems to work wonders for me.
Squirt Lock Ease very liberally into the tube with muzzle facing down until it runs out the end.
Next run a very loose fitting patch through the barrel three times. Use the same blackened patch all three times. This is to make sure theres no ponding or clumps of graphite in the bore to create an obstruction.
Clean chamber thoroughly of any Lock Ease. We're not looking for any lubricatative properties in the chamber.
Go out and shoot whatever you want and leave the rod and patches at home. Load development will be futile at this point.
I've been amazed at how fast Savage factory tubes and old milsurps will break in using this method.
Clean it good. It will take some effort to get all the graphite out from under the carbon.
It should be ready for load development now.
If its a factory tube with chatter marks from the reamer throw it away. Nothing will ever help.
If its a slightly rough factory tube I've found a method that seems to work wonders for me.
Squirt Lock Ease very liberally into the tube with muzzle facing down until it runs out the end.
Next run a very loose fitting patch through the barrel three times. Use the same blackened patch all three times. This is to make sure theres no ponding or clumps of graphite in the bore to create an obstruction.
Clean chamber thoroughly of any Lock Ease. We're not looking for any lubricatative properties in the chamber.
Go out and shoot whatever you want and leave the rod and patches at home. Load development will be futile at this point.
I've been amazed at how fast Savage factory tubes and old milsurps will break in using this method.
Clean it good. It will take some effort to get all the graphite out from under the carbon.
It should be ready for load development now.
If its a factory tube with chatter marks from the reamer throw it away. Nothing will ever help.
J
jo191145
Guest
Its like this Tom.
Tried moly on problem barrels. Didn't work to my expectations at all.
WS2 does much better and helps attenuate copper in relatively smooth barrels. I usually switch to WS2 in barrels that are getting worn and can no longer handle shooting long strings. Seems to give a little longevity. Not a strategy to use for serious competition but always educational.
Neither works as well as the Lock Ease saturation method in my previous post.
If one can keep the copper out of a barrel its amazing how fast some naked bullets can smooth it up. The key is not covering the rough spots with copper. JMO YMMV
Tried moly on problem barrels. Didn't work to my expectations at all.
WS2 does much better and helps attenuate copper in relatively smooth barrels. I usually switch to WS2 in barrels that are getting worn and can no longer handle shooting long strings. Seems to give a little longevity. Not a strategy to use for serious competition but always educational.
Neither works as well as the Lock Ease saturation method in my previous post.
If one can keep the copper out of a barrel its amazing how fast some naked bullets can smooth it up. The key is not covering the rough spots with copper. JMO YMMV
J
jo191145
Guest
Very well could be. I bought a few cans at a variety type store just to try it in the normal bore treatment method some BR shooters use.
I shoot a lot of Savage factory tubes. I've heard of folks who say thier guns shoot great even with orange bores. I've never had one that would. My first step with any new tube is to get coppering under control.
I shoot a lot of Savage factory tubes. I've heard of folks who say thier guns shoot great even with orange bores. I've never had one that would. My first step with any new tube is to get coppering under control.
The late Skip Otto did something similar that he called "lapping in the bore" using tranny fluid.....Dexron.
I think that the idea is that the ATF (or in your instance Lock-Eeze) that you've left in the barrel actually alters the surface of the bore. A LOT....... I'd be very careful to keep loads moderate because if the thing works the way The Skipper proposed (swaging/lapping) then there is potential to really ramp up the pressure.
My guess is that the load is so attenuated by having to burn all of that oil that the pressure is automatically dropped to manageable levels. It just scares me, the thought of purposely leaving an incompressible fluid dam in the bore.
al-safetygeek-inwa
T
trouble
Guest
I will use moly until I run out; then will probably switch to Bn. The few bullets that I've seen coated with it are so slick that I can hardly hold the case by the bullet end which of course doesn't necessarly mean that that alone helps the rifle bore but from what I've read it should be good stuff. As has been stated here a rough bore is going to copper no matter what but moly or other coatings will help. I have even lapped a barrel with bore lapping compounds not by fire lapping(fire lapping seems to take the throat right out of the barrel) but like applying JB compound;just wrap and old brush with a patch,then apply the lapping compound onto the patch,then stroke through the bore. Still don't go wild with the brushing even with this application. If you are having problems with severe fouling with a custon barrel, then you need to talk to the barrel maker and perhaps they will send you a replacement barrel. Doesn't hurt to ask. Hope this helps.
Your question
"copper fouling is how to prevent its buildup in the first place?"
I believe the barrel break in procedure some talk about is what this is all about.
Such as: Shoot one - clean, shoot two clean etc.
When doing this if you are not getting all the copper out, then copper is building up and becomes harder to get out.
Most custom SS barrels are very easy to clean.
With all this said I have a Krieger barrel that throws the first two shots out of a clean barrel way out of the group. Then it starts just starts drilling holes! Just weird stuff at times.
I use Lock-Ease with good success. Just a few drops on a clean patch after the barrel is clean and wiped dry of all cleaning fluid. I think pouring it down the barrel is over the top and may cause problems.
"copper fouling is how to prevent its buildup in the first place?"
I believe the barrel break in procedure some talk about is what this is all about.
Such as: Shoot one - clean, shoot two clean etc.
When doing this if you are not getting all the copper out, then copper is building up and becomes harder to get out.
Most custom SS barrels are very easy to clean.
With all this said I have a Krieger barrel that throws the first two shots out of a clean barrel way out of the group. Then it starts just starts drilling holes! Just weird stuff at times.
I use Lock-Ease with good success. Just a few drops on a clean patch after the barrel is clean and wiped dry of all cleaning fluid. I think pouring it down the barrel is over the top and may cause problems.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Sooner or later
Benchrest quality barrels often do not copper for a while after being broken in but sooner or later they start. I have used Danzak for several years and have found that copper will still build up even with t Danzak bore treatment. I think the heat is just too much.
I only clean after a full 6 paper match regardless of how many shots I fire. I have seen no adverse effects from this practice. I expect to find some copper. As an aside, two of the best barrels I have had to date coppered all the time I shot them, the best of those two coppered the entire length of it but it still shot like a lazer. ( 30 Cal rifles, all)
I have found that the Iosso paste works quite well at taking copper out as well as carbon. I also took a tip from a contributor here and wound some 0000 steel wool around a worn brush and short stroked that through the barrels. It will make short work of fouling, period. I don't dare do it very often, however. I even put a dab or two of JB on the Steel Wool; I did say short work, didn't I?
My question about copper fouling is how to prevent its buildup in the first place. Is there any method of bore prep that anyone has found to work to delay copper fouling? Any advice is appreciated
Benchrest quality barrels often do not copper for a while after being broken in but sooner or later they start. I have used Danzak for several years and have found that copper will still build up even with t Danzak bore treatment. I think the heat is just too much.
I only clean after a full 6 paper match regardless of how many shots I fire. I have seen no adverse effects from this practice. I expect to find some copper. As an aside, two of the best barrels I have had to date coppered all the time I shot them, the best of those two coppered the entire length of it but it still shot like a lazer. ( 30 Cal rifles, all)
I have found that the Iosso paste works quite well at taking copper out as well as carbon. I also took a tip from a contributor here and wound some 0000 steel wool around a worn brush and short stroked that through the barrels. It will make short work of fouling, period. I don't dare do it very often, however. I even put a dab or two of JB on the Steel Wool; I did say short work, didn't I?
T
Twud
Guest
Smooth Bore
I just had my first custom rifle built, sort of a hybrid varminter/bench gun. When I picked it up I asked the smith about break-in. His response, "with a quality barrel you don't need to do anything just go shoot it".
I did so anyway and never got a spot of copper from the bore. Last weekend I shot 10-3 shot groups and didn't clean 'til I got home. I got no copper after a spot or two on the first wet patch. Scrubbed it with a new brush, next patch no copper. I've never seen anything like it.
It's a 6MM BR with a BAT action and a Kreiger barrel. The first 3 shot group I fired after break-in measured .218. This is without any load development, just Sierra bullets and Varget powder. I hope to do much better.
My point is a really smooth quality barrel has nothing for the copper to "catch" on.
Mark
BTW- I wish my factory guns behaved this way.
I just had my first custom rifle built, sort of a hybrid varminter/bench gun. When I picked it up I asked the smith about break-in. His response, "with a quality barrel you don't need to do anything just go shoot it".
I did so anyway and never got a spot of copper from the bore. Last weekend I shot 10-3 shot groups and didn't clean 'til I got home. I got no copper after a spot or two on the first wet patch. Scrubbed it with a new brush, next patch no copper. I've never seen anything like it.
It's a 6MM BR with a BAT action and a Kreiger barrel. The first 3 shot group I fired after break-in measured .218. This is without any load development, just Sierra bullets and Varget powder. I hope to do much better.
My point is a really smooth quality barrel has nothing for the copper to "catch" on.
Mark
BTW- I wish my factory guns behaved this way.
Last edited by a moderator:
Boyd Allen
Active member
Twud,
You make a good point. So often, when a question is asked on this board about cleaning, we may forget that cleaning factory and top quality, hand lapped barrels are two very different subjects. BTW I just got off the phone with a friend that I lent some Patch Out and Accelerator to. He said that he had thought that he had gotten a problem barrel clean with his normal method, but then noticed the two bottles on his bench, and decided to give them a try. He said," You should see the junk that I got out of that barrel." I had to laugh; I had completely forgotten that I had lent them to him.
Boyd
You make a good point. So often, when a question is asked on this board about cleaning, we may forget that cleaning factory and top quality, hand lapped barrels are two very different subjects. BTW I just got off the phone with a friend that I lent some Patch Out and Accelerator to. He said that he had thought that he had gotten a problem barrel clean with his normal method, but then noticed the two bottles on his bench, and decided to give them a try. He said," You should see the junk that I got out of that barrel." I had to laugh; I had completely forgotten that I had lent them to him.
Boyd