Uthink Uknow
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dixieppc
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Hi Wilbur. I found a free photo posting site and uploaded it there to link to and all is well as you can see from that post. Now if I could just figure out where my car keys disappeared to........What's it mean if it doesn't disappear?
It's been years since we spoke my friend. 14 to be exact. I'm getting back into Short Range group shooting and hope to see you at some shoots in the 2015 NBRSA season. I am appointed to see that we have lost a lot of sanctioned ranges in the Southeast Region since I've been gone. Economics I guess. I think my last shoot was at Concorde which was also our regional meeting that year and you was director.
Best Regards,
Thomas Rollins
Not sure if 6BR is the only caliber you will be handloading, Michael, but I have a couple of thoughts.
In my (hopefully humble) opinion, Wilson dies are a throwback to a bygone era. When I first noticed this thing called "point blank benchrest", in the sixties, it was a much different world than today. Factory dies were a mess. Factory brass was a mess. Most shooters had 20 or 30 pieces of good brass and went to matches and loaded between relays. Some still do. Guys were using the tailgate of a pickup, a wooden box, even the hood of the car to reload on. The necks of the brass were turned ultra thin because that was the only way to clean them up and get them consistent. Most were too thin to give good neck tension so the bullets were jammed into the lands to get consistent ignition. It worked and some darned good shooting was done by some darned good shooters making the best they could of what was available at the time.
The portability of the arbor press and consistent quality of Wilson dies was a way to be competitive. A Wilson die was form-fitting to the brass and held it concentric in the die and held the bullet centered in the case while seating took place. Still a strong suit for Wilson dies. But, today there are much better 7/8" factory dies than ever before. Seating dies like the Redding Competition and Forster Micrometer are two of the best. These dies also hold the case centered in a form-fitting, sliding collet and keep the bullet centered during the seating process. These dies will seat with impeccable accuracy and concentricity.
The only real benefit of an arbor press and Wilson dies is their ease of portability for loading on the road at a range. Fewer and fewer shooters do this today as "pre-loaded" is becoming more and more popular. Full-length sizing with a custom die is becoming more prevalent and requires a press of some type to do it. If you desire that type of portability, my recommendation would be a Hood or Harrell "combo" press that will utilize both styles of dies. Common usage is a 7/8" sizing die (Harrell's or other custom highly recommended) and a Wilson or other custom seating die. Either press will fit in most tool box drawers and are of excellent quality.
Like another poster, I have lots of money tied up in dies and regularly use both styles. There is no problem loading top-notch handloads with a run-of-the-mill bench-mounted press of your choice using good-quality 7/8" dies.
In my (hopefully humble) opinion, Wilson dies are a throwback to a bygone era. When I first noticed this thing called "point blank benchrest", in the sixties, it was a much different world than today. Factory dies were a mess. Factory brass was a mess. Most shooters had 20 or 30 pieces of good brass and went to matches and loaded between relays. Some still do. Guys were using the tailgate of a pickup, a wooden box, even the hood of the car to reload on. The necks of the brass were turned ultra thin because that was the only way to clean them up and get them consistent. Most were too thin to give good neck tension so the bullets were jammed into the lands to get consistent ignition. It worked and some darned good shooting was done by some darned good shooters making the best they could of what was available at the time.
The portability of the arbor press and consistent quality of Wilson dies was a way to be competitive. A Wilson die was form-fitting to the brass and held it concentric in the die and held the bullet centered in the case while seating took place. Still a strong suit for Wilson dies. But, today there are much better 7/8" factory dies than ever before. Seating dies like the Redding Competition and Forster Micrometer are two of the best. These dies also hold the case centered in a form-fitting, sliding collet and keep the bullet centered during the seating process. These dies will seat with impeccable accuracy and concentricity.
The only real benefit of an arbor press and Wilson dies is their ease of portability for loading on the road at a range. Fewer and fewer shooters do this today as "pre-loaded" is becoming more and more popular. Full-length sizing with a custom die is becoming more prevalent and requires a press of some type to do it. If you desire that type of portability, my recommendation would be a Hood or Harrell "combo" press that will utilize both styles of dies. Common usage is a 7/8" sizing die (Harrell's or other custom highly recommended) and a Wilson or other custom seating die. Either press will fit in most tool box drawers and are of excellent quality.
Like another poster, I have lots of money tied up in dies and regularly use both styles. There is no problem loading top-notch handloads with a run-of-the-mill bench-mounted press of your choice using good-quality 7/8" dies.
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
After 20 years in point blank benchrest I can still count the number of people that pre loaded for a match on one hand. I dont even need that hand to count the winners that pre loaded.
Boyd Allen
Active member
I think that one poster may be talking about score matches, and the other about group. I understand that .30 BRs are more tolerant of preloading and that they are common at score matches, and I am pretty sure that the 6PPC pretty much owns group shooting and that very few preload for those, what with winning aggregates being in the teens and 133 being a bit twitchy to keep in perfect tune. In our part of the world, hardly any one preloads for group matches. In fact, I can only think of one who does so on a regular basis.
M
michaelnel
Guest
Not Gonna Convert
I am very appreciative of all the great advice given here in this thread, and I have learned a lot.
I am not a competitive shooter, and it is unlikely I ever will be. I pretty much compete against myself only. I try to do better each time I go to the range.
I have no need or desire to load ammo at the range. I understand that the top shooters do it, but I am not one.
I will use as many of the ideas presented here as makes sense for my own particular situation. At this point I likely will not get a Harrell's FL die, or Wilson seaters, or an arbor press. I will muddle through with the Redding Competition FL die with the Redding comp shellholders. For rifle, I will use a Forster Co-Ax press, and the Redding Competition Seater with the VLD insert. I load for .45 ACP, .44 Magnum, .308 and 6mm BR. I do the handgun stuff on a Dillon RL550B.
Thanks again for all the help!
I am very appreciative of all the great advice given here in this thread, and I have learned a lot.
I am not a competitive shooter, and it is unlikely I ever will be. I pretty much compete against myself only. I try to do better each time I go to the range.
I have no need or desire to load ammo at the range. I understand that the top shooters do it, but I am not one.
I will use as many of the ideas presented here as makes sense for my own particular situation. At this point I likely will not get a Harrell's FL die, or Wilson seaters, or an arbor press. I will muddle through with the Redding Competition FL die with the Redding comp shellholders. For rifle, I will use a Forster Co-Ax press, and the Redding Competition Seater with the VLD insert. I load for .45 ACP, .44 Magnum, .308 and 6mm BR. I do the handgun stuff on a Dillon RL550B.
Thanks again for all the help!
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
You might want to verify that the Redding Competition seater will work in the co-ax press. There are some that won't, they're too tall.
M
michaelnel
Guest
I'll be able to verify that tomorrow when the press arrives. I already have the dies. However, it is my understanding that earlier versions of the Co-Ax had clearance issues with tall dies, but that Forster addressed this long ago with a redesigned yoke on the current production handle.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Reed,
The top shooters that I talk with take more than one powder to a match, and choose the one that they will use based on testing at that range. If a shooter runs into problems, he may switch before the weekend is over. There are also climates that seem to favor one powder over another. I have never heard complaints about 133 from shooters that compete in Tacoma, and I have heard some preference expressed (although this is not an absolute) for powders other than 133 for matches shot at Phoenix.
Boyd
The top shooters that I talk with take more than one powder to a match, and choose the one that they will use based on testing at that range. If a shooter runs into problems, he may switch before the weekend is over. There are also climates that seem to favor one powder over another. I have never heard complaints about 133 from shooters that compete in Tacoma, and I have heard some preference expressed (although this is not an absolute) for powders other than 133 for matches shot at Phoenix.
Boyd
B
benchshooter
Guest
I switched over to Wilson dies many years ago and haven't looked back. I absolutely love them. However, as of lately I have been thinking about a fitted resizing die based off of one of my fired cases.