Chicken or egg?

bob finger

New member
Okay, another one for you seasoned reloaders. When you are working up an initial load for a CF bench gun do you work with powder variations first or with bullet seating first? Makes no sense to do both at the same time. I've not read anything on this important subject. So what do you do first? Work up powder or bullet seating? Thanks in advance for your time. This could be interesting. bob
 
Both!

Using a target that has 5 bull-eyes per row.

I seat the bullet as long as possible (Jam) and shoot 5 different loads (3 shot groups) that vary by 3 tenths going up on powder. Then I seat the bullet .003 deeper into the case and repeat the same loads. I keep repeating this process until I am satisfied that I am getting the most out of my rifle.

Its pretty much a latter test. When you are done you should be able to determine your best seating depth and load window.

Bart

Bart's Custom Bullets & Premier Benchrest Jackets
 
Centerfire: Yes I have one, but what will it tell me about bullet placement on the card?

Bart: Thanks. Makes sense I guess. bob
 
Listen to Bart!

I use a variation of Bart's method. I shoot three powder charges and about five seating depths. I try a mild load, a middle load, and a hot load. When one finds a seating depth that shows all three powder charges in ~ the same orientation on the target, he/she has found the ideal seating depth. I start at jam....fire the three charges.....go to .003" off jam...fire the three.....go to .006 off and fire the three charges,etc. until I find the best seating depth. After I find this depth, I can tweak my loads and try a few more charges. Methods similar to these are used by many of the short range HOF shooters. Good shooting...James The following illustration shows the "Neary" method. What he looks for is the 3 groups fired at .005 off jam.
 

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In Tony Boyers book, he (or Larry Costa) described the best method I've seen. I call it a load grid-matrix method.
He uses targets that have 5-6 targets across and 5-6 down. I use the Skip Otto targets sold by Bud Mundey.

Starting with the bullet at a medium jam (a square mark) then lets say you have a 5x5 target.
This example would be for a cartridge (like the 6PPC) where you know a popular starting load (for example 29 grains V133 and bullet at medium jam)

Start in the middle of that grid with a popular or suspected load. Going right and left from that load in the center of the grid, moving to the left 28.7 g and then 28.4g. Moving to the right on that line 29.3g then 29.6g.

Move up one line and from the center move the bullet out 0.003" then 28.4, 28.7g 29g (center load) 29.3 then 29.6.

Move down one line from the starting line and move the bullet in 0.003" Then 28.4, 28.7. 29. 29.3 and 29.6g grains.

And then up 2 lines from the starting point and finally 2 lines down from the starting point.

OR if you want to be a tight bastard only do a 3x3 grid, use this if you are starting from a fairly confident load.

Doing a symmetric grid like this and shooting the targets in a grid gives you the ability to easily detect what that bullet/powder/barrel is going to like. So, if it looks like the barrel is wanting less jam and more powder make the center of the next grid-matrix where that best load was and start from there using the same steps of bullet movement and powder quanity.

I think you know all about widn flags and the importance of using them, etc.

Cleaning? fire a line of loads, then clean, then foul the barrel then start the next line, etc., etc.

This sounds like a lot of shooting but it gives you a visual plan where just randomally changing loads you will fire this much and still not be able to see any pattern A 5x5 matrix uses 75 loads, plus foulers, a 3x3 is 27 loads. It usually takes about 50-100 shots ot really break a barrel in anyway.
 
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Bob,

So far it looks like the majority of us try a seating depth with several loads, then adjust the seating depth a little and try several loads again.

Bart
 
It's Over Bart

Bob,

So far it looks like the majority of us try a seating depth with several loads, then adjust the seating depth a little and try several loads again.

Bart

Hard telling how things are going to be from now on with the neighborhood going to hell...............:D:cool::p

Later
Dave
 
So, what everyone seems to be saying is that the two variables interact. I was hoping it was easier than that, but I'm not surprised. I have work to do. Thanks guys. Hope I don't wear a barrel out before I find a tune. bob
 
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