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Shiraz Balolia
Guest
Dave - Look forward to seeing you there. If I am out and about shopping for "toys", have them call me and I will return to the booth.
Dave - Look forward to seeing you there. If I am out and about shopping for "toys", have them call me and I will return to the booth.
B
boucher
Guest
Kill two birds with one stone
Don't mean to hijack this thread but there is another use for this tooling arrangement for those that are limited by a short bed. Just turn the barrell around to work on the Crown. I also install a dead center in the headstock and use this adapter to drive a lathe dog for working between centers. Using this in reverse could shorten things up even more. Can't wait to try it. I would have never thought of just using the screws to drive the work without a dog.
Don't mean to hijack this thread but there is another use for this tooling arrangement for those that are limited by a short bed. Just turn the barrell around to work on the Crown. I also install a dead center in the headstock and use this adapter to drive a lathe dog for working between centers. Using this in reverse could shorten things up even more. Can't wait to try it. I would have never thought of just using the screws to drive the work without a dog.
C
Crow99
Guest
Shiraz: Thank you again for being so supportive of the gunsmithing community. Excellent machinery, excellent video, and now specialized attachment. I hope to be one of the first to buy the spider backplate in D-1-5 for the G4003G. When can we order / get on the "list?"
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Shiraz Balolia
Guest
It will be about 4 months, I would say, before they are available. Next two weeks are shot because most of ASIA is "closed for business" due to Chinese New Year. Then they will start working on it. After I approve the prototype, a model/item number will be assigned and an order placed. Thanks.
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Gordy Gritters
Guest
Hey, Tooley
Glad you're coming to the SHOT show - looking forward to seeing you again!
We'll have to get together and tell some more lies about Lee Fischer!!!!!!!
See you soon!
Gordy
Glad you're coming to the SHOT show - looking forward to seeing you again!
We'll have to get together and tell some more lies about Lee Fischer!!!!!!!
See you soon!
Gordy
M
mpatti
Guest
I have a face plate that came with the lathe that I can turn down and make a fine spider gear from and save some inches. Dave, thanks for the picture!!!
I will also make a bushing for the outboard end but probably will wait to see what barrel I will be working on that needs it first. Thanks Jerry for the idea.
I will also make a bushing for the outboard end but probably will wait to see what barrel I will be working on that needs it first. Thanks Jerry for the idea.
Dave Tooley
Active member
Gordy
Lies, We don't need no stinking lies. We can tell the truth about him.
Dave
Lies, We don't need no stinking lies. We can tell the truth about him.
Dave
Dave Tooley
Active member
mpatti
Concerning chambering shorter barrels. I want some of the guys here to way in on this. If your barrel is going to be to short to reach all the way through the headstock why not cut it long enough to get out where you can get an indicator on it? The ID of the spindle is just a reamed hole. I've never check mine for concentricity. I would think an inch or so of barrel would have less runout than the ID of the spindle.
Also Joel Pendergraft came up with an insert to go in his spindle that the adjustment screws were facing out and put pressure on a pad or something that held the barrel in place. I've got all kinds of ideas running through my head right now about how to do that. Just depends on how large the spindle hole is compared to your barrel. It could be as simple as pointed tip set screws pushing against ball bearings that are riding on the barrel.
On second thought If I was going to do it that way I would have standard size to slip over the barrel that I had turned down and have the ball bearings go out and touch the spindle. It would involve turning down about 3/4" of barrel then when your done chambering cut that part off. It doesn't take much work holding pressure on that end.
Dave
Concerning chambering shorter barrels. I want some of the guys here to way in on this. If your barrel is going to be to short to reach all the way through the headstock why not cut it long enough to get out where you can get an indicator on it? The ID of the spindle is just a reamed hole. I've never check mine for concentricity. I would think an inch or so of barrel would have less runout than the ID of the spindle.
Also Joel Pendergraft came up with an insert to go in his spindle that the adjustment screws were facing out and put pressure on a pad or something that held the barrel in place. I've got all kinds of ideas running through my head right now about how to do that. Just depends on how large the spindle hole is compared to your barrel. It could be as simple as pointed tip set screws pushing against ball bearings that are riding on the barrel.
On second thought If I was going to do it that way I would have standard size to slip over the barrel that I had turned down and have the ball bearings go out and touch the spindle. It would involve turning down about 3/4" of barrel then when your done chambering cut that part off. It doesn't take much work holding pressure on that end.
Dave
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Dave, IMO it would be a pi$$ poor made lathe spindle that had more than 0.005" TIR in the spindle bore. I know some folks have reamed the spindle bore with something like a shell reamer.
They may have bored the first couple of inches then reamed from there. Problem is, if the hole run-out is very much the shell reamer would eventually start to follow that hole. And, that part of the spindle bore would be where a bushing would actually run. Other than bringing the bore to a particular diameter there would be no reason to ream unless I am missing something.
When you leaving for the SHOT show? Jim left this AM. Look him up and boo him. They are supposed to give him some big award this year!!
J
J. Pendergraft
Guest
Dave referred to the tool I made for doing short barrels thru the headstock. The spindle bore on the Clausing is 2.125" so this type device may not be practical for smaller spindle bores. Also to us this device you have to use an alignment rod like Greg Tannel sells and do all the alignment on the end of the barrel you are setting up to machine. Dave, I like the ball bearing idea, it would work the same as mine but less time to make the tool. Heavy grease would probably hold the bearings in place. I use grease on my pins and they stay in place fine. I don't take credit for this device. I told a tool and die maker what I wanted to do and it took him about 2 minutes to sketch this up.
I have attached a picture of the device and a picture of the angle cut pin and adjustment bolt arrangement.
I have attached a picture of the device and a picture of the angle cut pin and adjustment bolt arrangement.
Attachments
J
Jan
Guest
mpatti
...please email me at nevrhad2(REMOVETHIS)@nvbell.net
thanks........... Jan Sarras
...please email me at nevrhad2(REMOVETHIS)@nvbell.net
thanks........... Jan Sarras
Rob Carnell
Member
Here is what I use
www.benchrestbulletin.com.au/personalprojects/spindlebushing.jpg
This is the bushing that I made. It has a rubber 0-ring in a groove, and is a press fit inside my spindle. The end is turned down to take a standard pilot, then drilled and tapped for the screw. It works like a dream. The only drawback with this method is that you cannot blow air down the barrel from the outboard end to clear chips. However, I find I can do this just fine from the chamber end.
I just put the bushing into the muzzle end, open the jaws wide, then push the barrel down the spindle with the tailstock until it is in the right position.
Hope the pic comes out ok, maybe I should have cleaned off the oil!
Rob Carnell
Sydney, Australia
www.benchrestbulletin.com.au/personalprojects/spindlebushing.jpg
This is the bushing that I made. It has a rubber 0-ring in a groove, and is a press fit inside my spindle. The end is turned down to take a standard pilot, then drilled and tapped for the screw. It works like a dream. The only drawback with this method is that you cannot blow air down the barrel from the outboard end to clear chips. However, I find I can do this just fine from the chamber end.
I just put the bushing into the muzzle end, open the jaws wide, then push the barrel down the spindle with the tailstock until it is in the right position.
Hope the pic comes out ok, maybe I should have cleaned off the oil!
Rob Carnell
Sydney, Australia
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PPP MMM
Guest
O ring
A spindle touching closely fitted O ring or two sitting in the groove(s) along the body would improve the effectiveness of this great device by minimising most of the vibrations.
Shoot well
Peter
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A spindle touching closely fitted O ring or two sitting in the groove(s) along the body would improve the effectiveness of this great device by minimising most of the vibrations.
Shoot well
Peter
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Dave Tooley
Active member
Joel
I knew you had done this using pins. I thought about a Remington 40X trigger with trigger pull screw coming out the bottom. Screw, ballbearing against the spring. It would real easy to drill and ream the holes for the ball bearings. Then just stake them in, so they don't fall out. 3/16" or 1/8" bearings would provide all the travel you would need. Get some long set screws. Ream the ID. You could turn down a sacrificial section of the muzzle to fit or epoxy a bushing on the barrel and turn it down between centers. Snug fit with one nylon tipped set screw should hold it in place Most guys are just a couple of inches short and could reach in with a long stem indicator, maybe even with their standard short stem indicator. Several ways to skin this cat and go a good job of it.
Dave
I knew you had done this using pins. I thought about a Remington 40X trigger with trigger pull screw coming out the bottom. Screw, ballbearing against the spring. It would real easy to drill and ream the holes for the ball bearings. Then just stake them in, so they don't fall out. 3/16" or 1/8" bearings would provide all the travel you would need. Get some long set screws. Ream the ID. You could turn down a sacrificial section of the muzzle to fit or epoxy a bushing on the barrel and turn it down between centers. Snug fit with one nylon tipped set screw should hold it in place Most guys are just a couple of inches short and could reach in with a long stem indicator, maybe even with their standard short stem indicator. Several ways to skin this cat and go a good job of it.
Dave
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PPP MMM
Guest
Pins are more effective than ball bearings
As the pins can have a much greater face radius than, 3/16-1/8" thus providing for more spindle contact area, giving more stability and support. As a matter of fact the face radius of the pins can be made to equal the radius of the spindle. Giving a full line of contact, rather than just pinpoint contact.
Shoot well
Peter
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As the pins can have a much greater face radius than, 3/16-1/8" thus providing for more spindle contact area, giving more stability and support. As a matter of fact the face radius of the pins can be made to equal the radius of the spindle. Giving a full line of contact, rather than just pinpoint contact.
Shoot well
Peter
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J
J. Pendergraft
Guest
I have my pins radiused a little smaller so when the alignment of the device is not quite concentric with the spindle bore the center part of the radius on the pin will still be the contact point. Some will make the point that you do not require much to hold this end of the barrel, which is likely true. I have a tendency to tighten and hold things more than is necessary.
P
PPP MMM
Guest
Radius acting as a sectioned ball
Concentic or not, if the radius of the individual pins is the same as is the radius of the hole in the spindle it will always act as if it was a sectioned ball of one diameter. If the ball would be the same size as the bore in the spindle it would have a full contact line around its entire circumference. The ball could be tilted and there will always be a full contact line with the spindle. Any two opposite points on the contact line of the ball will always be in contact with the bore of the spindle, regardless whichever way the ball will be tilted. The contact line on the four pins will be always square with bore of the spindle if the pins will have the same radius as the bore. Exactly as if it was a big ball.
The pins with the same face diameter as is the diameter of the spindle are representing the full contact line of two opposite points on the ball. In this case the diameter of the pins is that full contact line. One can say, that the four pins is actually what has left from the imaginary big ball. The larger the diameter of the pins is, the longer is the contact line in full contact with the spindle. If the "big ball" or the radius on the pins is made smaller and it will always have only a pinpoint of contact. THE BIG BALL ONLY SERVES AS AN EXPLANATION, just in case someone limited can't get the picture otherwise.
Have I ever wanted to hold something less while machining? Never. It's a good tool. Making the radius on the pins the same as is the radius of the spindle and one or two grooves along the body to sit O rings into will transform a good tool into an excelent tool. The use of 3/16 - 1/8" ball bearings would compromise the purpose of the tool, much more then the pins with a smaller radius than the bore of the spindle would.
Shoot well
Peter
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Concentic or not, if the radius of the individual pins is the same as is the radius of the hole in the spindle it will always act as if it was a sectioned ball of one diameter. If the ball would be the same size as the bore in the spindle it would have a full contact line around its entire circumference. The ball could be tilted and there will always be a full contact line with the spindle. Any two opposite points on the contact line of the ball will always be in contact with the bore of the spindle, regardless whichever way the ball will be tilted. The contact line on the four pins will be always square with bore of the spindle if the pins will have the same radius as the bore. Exactly as if it was a big ball.
The pins with the same face diameter as is the diameter of the spindle are representing the full contact line of two opposite points on the ball. In this case the diameter of the pins is that full contact line. One can say, that the four pins is actually what has left from the imaginary big ball. The larger the diameter of the pins is, the longer is the contact line in full contact with the spindle. If the "big ball" or the radius on the pins is made smaller and it will always have only a pinpoint of contact. THE BIG BALL ONLY SERVES AS AN EXPLANATION, just in case someone limited can't get the picture otherwise.
Have I ever wanted to hold something less while machining? Never. It's a good tool. Making the radius on the pins the same as is the radius of the spindle and one or two grooves along the body to sit O rings into will transform a good tool into an excelent tool. The use of 3/16 - 1/8" ball bearings would compromise the purpose of the tool, much more then the pins with a smaller radius than the bore of the spindle would.
Shoot well
Peter
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