Case bulge just ahead of the web area

H

huntinfool

Guest
I've never noticed this on any of my other cartridges, but my NULA 30/06 shows a noticable "bulge" just ahead of the case head in the web area. It shows in the picture as a ring around the case. What's causing this? This was factory new Winchester brass. I Full length sized it before loading. After firing these cases, they take a great amount of force to size them again even with plenty of lube. The load is 58 grains of IMR 4350, Federal Match 210 Primer and 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, Winchester Brass.

IMG_0558.jpg
 
fool

You have a grossly oversize chamber. I'm not sure what "NULA" is but wherever you got that rifle needs to be advised that you are returning it. If you resize those cases and then fire them, and then resize, and then fire them, sooner or later the brass will fatigue and seperate. If you have to keep the rifle it's best not to full-length resize them, but even that is only delaying the inevitable.

JMHO

Ray
 
Without measuring the actual diameters you can't really say if you have a problem or not...

Often Winchester brass is made under size from what the SAAMI specifications are... if the chamber is made to the correct specs and you fire a smaller than spec brass in it, this is exactly what you get...

...but if a properly lubricated case is hard to resize in a correctly made die, then most likely your chamber is incorrect...

... not easily fixed...
 
Dennis

You're right about having to actually measure the diameter to see how big the chamber is, but judging by the photo, it looks like more than the normal minimum brass/maximum chamber bulge to me.

Ray
 
New brass measures .463" where the bulge would be, fired measures .473"
New brass length is 2.488" and fired brass is 2.491", sized brass is 2.495"
 
The fired brass is slightly oversize... the unfired brass is way under size... it should be more like .468 or .469" before firing I believe... I don't have the actual specs...
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Without measuring the actual diameters you can't really say if you have a problem or not...

Often Winchester brass is made under size from what the SAAMI specifications are... if the chamber is made to the correct specs and you fire a smaller than spec brass in it, this is exactly what you get...

...but if a properly lubricated case is hard to resize in a correctly made die, then most likely your chamber is incorrect...

... not easily fixed...
Click to expand...
I, too, have seen many cases where Winchester brass is smaller than other brands and it makes a fired case appear as if something is wrong. I would try another brand of ammunition just to make a comparison. Ray, NULA is New UltraLight Arms.
 
Generally speaking, I have always liked Winchester brass but it is often on the small size. When the nominal head size for a 30/06 is .470, there is just no excuse for .463 brass. The chamber, while oversized slightly, is probably within tolerance.
I recently came across some 250-3000 ammunition (winchester) which measures .4605" at the head! I have old 35 remington brass that big. I fired a round of this ammo in a 250-3000 I had just chambered and about choked when I saw the bulge. I then measured the chamber which was exactly .470. I threw out the rest of the ammo. It's a sad situation when an old line American company starts producing quality which would be unacceptable in Korea. Regards, Bill
 
You guys are right. Both the brass and chamber are probably close to specs. I guess I'm so used to tight-butt chambers that the photo of that bulged cases was a shocker.:eek: Benchrest spoils us.:)

Ray
 
Can you post a better pic, with a sheet of paper back ground, maybe use the macro function on your camera (looks like the tulip symbol)
 
Here is a closer, clear picture. These were run into, more like forced into the die (yes they were lubed).
I took some measurements and in doing so, I may have found my problem. I found a few cases with little or no bulge that were fired and discovered that these case were less than 2.485". So that tells me that I have a short neck area? and the longer cases are pinching the bullet possibly? THe only reloading manual that lists a trim length is Sierra and they list it as 2.485". Does this sound like the problem?


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My neighbor had a ruger 77 22-250, old type tang, that did this exact same thing. I noticed it after Mike gave me some brass. I coul barely resize it.

We took the rifle up to Bill Morrison in Bradford, and he said the chamber was not cut right, and said to send it back to ruger.

We sent it back, and ruger said it was over pressurized, and the gun should be destroyed. (I agreed with the destroyed part).

I ran a mic over the barrel, and could see no external dimension issue from pressure.

We took it back up to Bill, and after some cursing about Ruger, spun the barrel of, threw it in the lathe, and parted1/2" off the barrel and rechambered it.

It now shoots better than any ruger I've ever seen, and the brass barely touches the resizer. The lettering on the barrel now point straight up, though, but who cares, it's just a wood chuck gun anyway.

Ben
 
I have some Lapua unfired 30-06 cases here. They measure .470 at the back end...which will be a very nice fit in your chamber. The reason you're getting the inconsistent lengths from fired and sized cases is from the poor fit of the Winchester brass in the chamber and the resulting dimensional changes that are happening during firing and the sizing operation. With good fitting brass (like the Lapua), your length issues will go away.

Winchester brand cases have been getting progressively smaller as time goes on. It's another way that they save money in a production line setting. Keeping up with the dimensions of available brass for certain chamberings is a constant issue for savvy 'smiths, ...especially those who build accurate hunting rifles who have to make sure their reamers work with what's available for brass/dies.

Melvin Forbes and his NULA corp. build some of the finest lightweight hunting rifles available. It looks to me like Melvin has wisely dimensioned his 30-06 reamer to the Lapua case for his customers that want to handload for their 30-06 NULA's. For those shooting factory stuff and not reloading, the chamber is big enough to swallow anything the customer may buy and stuff in there. Since those customers don't reload, the case bulging is a non-issue.

Hope this helps. -Al
 
Al Nyhus said:
I have some Lapua unfired 30-06 cases here. They measure .470 at the back end...which will be a very nice fit in your chamber. The reason you're getting the inconsistent lengths from fired and sized cases is from the poor fit of the Winchester brass in the chamber and the resulting dimensional changes that are happening during firing and the sizing operation. With good fitting brass (like the Lapua), your length issues will go away.

Winchester brand cases have been getting progressively smaller as time goes on. It's another way that they save money in a production line setting. Keeping up with the dimensions of available brass for certain chamberings is a constant issue for savvy 'smiths, ...especially those who build accurate hunting rifles who have to make sure their reamers work with what's available for brass/dies.

Melvin Forbes and his NULA corp. build some of the finest lightweight hunting rifles available. It looks to me like Melvin has wisely dimensioned his 30-06 reamer to the Lapua case for his customers that want to handload for their 30-06 NULA's. For those shooting factory stuff and not reloading, the chamber is big enough to swallow anything the customer may buy and stuff in there. Since those customers don't reload, the case bulging is a non-issue.

Hope this helps. -Al
Click to expand...

Al,

You really think it's ok? You guys have more experience here, but that looks horrible.

HUNTINFOOL says

"New brass measures .463" where the bulge would be, fired measures .473"

So, I believe he is measuring both cases, approximately at the bulge, not the back of the case. His case back, looking at the pics, tapers back out to probably in the same neighborhood as the lapua brass. (.470)

Al, when you say "at the back end" do you mean end of case, or approx where his bulge is?

Ben
 
The chamber is too big for the brass that you'r shooting in it. By looking at your bulged case, one soft case and someone else my be typing your next post for you.

Shoot well
Peter
 
Not That Uncommon

Since seeing your second picture, that is not that uncommon, or at least as uncommon as you would think.
Next time you are at the local range, pick up some of the cases off the ground and look at them. You will see what I mean........jackie
 
Bnhpr said:
Al,

You really think it's ok? You guys have more experience here, but that looks horrible.

HUNTINFOOL says

"New brass measures .463" where the bulge would be, fired measures .473"

So, I believe he is measuring both cases, approximately at the bulge, not the back of the case. His case back, looking at the pics, tapers back out to probably in the same neighborhood as the lapua brass. (.470)

Al, when you say "at the back end" do you mean end of case, or approx where his bulge is? Ben
Click to expand...

Ben, my point is that the chamber will be fine with Lapua brass. The .470 figure on the Lapua 30-06 brass I have on hand is at .200 ahead of the extractor groove...roughly where the 'bulge' is on his fired cases. This would give about .003 clearance, will be about perfect for a huntin' rig and will resize nicely for handloading.

Do I "..really think it's ok?" Not with Winchester (or whomevers) brass that you want to handload. If I owned the gun and wanted to handload, using Lapua cases would solve the 'problem'.For people shooting factory ammo, it simply doesn't matter...there is no 'problem' to fix for their use.
 
Thanks for the responses. I'll gladly buy Lapua brass, after all 100 pcs would last me a long time in a hunting rig. Time to order some Redding "S" dies, a bushing, a carbide neck kit and some Lapua brass.
 
Al Nyhus said:
Ben, my point is that the chamber will be fine with Lapua brass. The .470 figure on the Lapua 30-06 brass I have on hand is at .200 ahead of the extractor groove...roughly where the 'bulge' is on his fired cases. This would give about .003 clearance, will be about perfect for a huntin' rig and will resize nicely for handloading.

Do I "..really think it's ok?" Not with Winchester (or whomevers) brass that you want to handload. If I owned the gun and wanted to handload, using Lapua cases would solve the 'problem'.For people shooting factory ammo, it simply doesn't matter...there is no 'problem' to fix for their use.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize there was that much dimensional difference in brands of brass. I have a whole bunch of LC Match military brass that is noticably larger than the Win brass, but I did not notice, with the .308 win case the difference in Lapua vs Win, but that said I didn't mic it either. I will for sure though when I get home. I have tons of winchester brass, and old habits die hard. I know what your thinking, i should give it up, but i'm kinda stubborn, so I learn the hard way.

Would be interesting to see how Lapua brass looked in that chamber. Is the LC match brass any good? It seems to shoot ok, with cleaning up of the primer pockets.
 
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