Carbon Build-up causing curved necks on fired brass?

A few years back, I needed to clean an old 7 Mag. rifle that had probably never been properly cleaned. After I had used patches, a brush and Butch's to the point where the blue stopped, but inspection with a bore scoped showed a black layer in the grooves that completely obscured the steel. I happened to have a pre-production sample of Carb Out, and had determined by previous experimentation that using a nylon brush, as recommended by the directions was not an adequate procedure, so I thoroughly wet the bore with Carb Out, wet a bronze brush with it, and carefully brushed the bore for perhaps 20 cycles, and then let it soak for about 20 minutes. After that I patched out the bore, and repeated the whole procedure again. after the second time, I patched the bore dry, and took a look with the bore scope, the black in the grooves was completely gone. I am not sure that this was the hardest of carbon, but it was resistant to normal cleaning, and it came out with Carb Out. In the past, I had solved the same sort of problem by loading up a nylon brush with IOSSO. I don't mind using an abrasive every once in a while, but I don't want to use one very often. I think that having a way to deal with the problem chemically is a good thing, and I think that Tony Boyer has been able to reduce his use of abrasives with the same material, at least that is what I have read.
 
If we really considered how the barrel gets dirty it might make us think twice.
A bad barrel will strip some copper from the bullet as it passes. Then the burning powder lays down a carbon layer. Then all over again? Copper, carbon, copper, carbon, copper carbon???????
Are we having to get through one layer to get to the next?

Andy what is CCL?
Also did it "dissolve" or just turn into a suspension?

I had thought about CTC but have not seen any for a long time and didnt know for sure if it would do anything to carbon?
If memory serves me correctly its pretty dangerous stuff.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
.................sample of Carb Out, and had determined by previous experimentation that using a nylon brush, as recommended by the directions was not an adequate procedure, so I thoroughly wet the bore with Carb Out, wet a bronze brush with it, and carefully brushed the bore for perhaps 20 cycles, and then let it soak for about 20 minutes. After that I patched out the bore, and repeated the whole procedure again. after the second time................ the black in the grooves was completely gone......... and it came out with Carb Out.
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Hi Boyd,

With all due respect, if I read this correctly, your conclusion should address the variable in the experiment.

I have been following this discussion as I don't have a bore scope at this time and after just building a 6BR I don't want to end up with problems concerning the carbon ring.

Again, with all due respect to everyone here, if I was going to experiment trying to dissolve carbon, and then relate that information for others to use successfully, then my experimentation should involve the carbon ring, not something else. I realize that this is difficult so I have to look for a reasonable substitute.

The closest alternative IMO is vitreous carbon, formed with carbon and high temperatures. I would be pretty confident in saying, if you can find something to dissolve vitreous carbon, it will work on the carbon ring in your chamber. Anything short of that I am skeptical, but prepared to say I am wrong if proven so.

Others have used physical means successfully, and that is what I am leaning towards.

Jim
 
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I am not saying that Carb Out will dissolve carbon, or that it will remove a carbon ring, what I am saying is that it seems to do more than ordinary solvents, and that it may help. Luckily, I don't have any barrels that have formed carbon rings. It seems that some have a greater propensity than others for this. I was just relaying one experience that I think is worth following up on. If there is nothing but pure carbon involved, then we may be stuck using abrasives, but if there is other stuff (Note the scientific terminology.) that can be softened chemically, mixed in with it, then there may be alternatives. One thing for sure, staying ahead of the problem, so that any given cleaning only has to remove a very thin build up, is undoubtedly a good idea. From time to time, I read a post that says that "we" need to do a more thorough, scientific test. My problem is that once I find a successful way to eliminate MY problem, for me, there is not problem to investigate, which is where I am at the present. For those of you that still have a problem, I wish you well with solving it, and will be interested in reading about how you did it.
Boyd
 
Actually it isn't

I will attempt to reply to several posts.

the "carbon" in a rifle barrel is totally different from lamp black.

Actually it isn't

The only difference between lamp black and the carbon in a barrel is that after the barrel has a layer of steel a few molecules deep melted which then recondenses the carbon has the chance to get imbedded into the structure of the steel. CTC is a solvent for carbon. The only carbon it won't dissolve is crystallised carbon aka diamond. If you leave a barrel exposed to CTC for a few hours the small molecules will get into the roughened surface of the barrel and dissolve the carbon. It Doesn' t just disperse it. ie come back an hour later and the carbon is lying at the bottom of the test tube.

As far as being dangerous. Let commen sence prevail. If you refrain from inhaling it, ingesting it or getting it on your skin you will be Ok. I wouldn't do that with regular solvent either.There are various other similar types of compounds that may be easier to obtain depending on the country you live in. I also wash my brass in the stuff every so often. Takes about 2 minutes and it looks like new inside and out.
Andy.
 
Vern said:
RAG You can make perfectly smooth and accurate castings with cerrosafe.
I do, but there is a key.
You need to warm the barrel if you dont they dont come out smooth.
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Great to know, thank you. Haven't used it 10 years or so (which is probably why I can't find any of my chamber castings). I needed to get some anyways to help me get dimensions off my dies (to have a reamer made/matched).
 
Not sure

I am not sure what this flushing agent consists of as all there was on the web site was the trade name. No chemical name or chemical notation. Chances are it is a dispersant for carbon rather than a solvent. You would have to do a test or ring the manufacturer and inform them what you intended using it for.Trichloroethane or trichloromethane I have been told by a chemical engineer should also work.
Andy.
 
I wondered the same thing.
However CTC used to be used in making refrigerant for cooling units.
 
This seemed to have solved it...wrapping a JB patch on the bronze brush and spinning it. After a quick trip to the range, I didn't notice any that any of the neck ends looked curved. Nice!

Boyd Allen said:
For those that do not have bore scopes, if you carefully push a clean dry patch down the barrel from the muzzle to just in front of the chamber, with something that does not pierce it, and use a light, you will be amazed at how well you can see, with magnification. The patch acts as a reflector. without it, most of the light is not reflected back to the eye. Can also be done, from back to front, to better see the last couple of inches at the muzzle. The difference is significant.

Recently. I was doing some experimenting with different powders, that are dirtier than 133. On a second trip to the range, I did not get the results that I did the first time. After some thought, I decided that there might be a buildup of powder fouling at the front of the chamber. To make better contact with, and clean more aggressively in that area, I rubbed a small amount of gun oil, and then a small amount of JB, into a patch, and wrapped it around (slightly overhanging the front) one of my regular bronze 6mm brushes, that I had mounted on a chamber rod. This combination came to a very positive stop at the front of the neck part of the chamber, and it only took a few twists to clean out the fouling. I think that I probably will make up some patches with this combination, and keep them in a small container in my cleaning kit. I can see where I may have been missing something when shooting powders other than 133. In the past, with that powder, my chambers have not shown any carbon (using a friend's bore scope), after cleaning with my normal BBS, patches and brush method. Also, if we are not going to clean after every group, I think that it is particularly important to trim cases often, so that they do not have their mouths overhanging fouling at the front of the chamber.
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Better you than me

Mechanical removal of things like carbon build up from a surface will work if brutal enough. I am just touchy when it comes to putting things into my barrels and using them in an unconventional way. Better you than me for adopting this sort of approach. I have always been keen to adopt the softer slower approach which can help keep me out of trouble.
Andy.
 
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