Can we discuss mid-barrel tuners yet?

mwezell

mwezell

Mike Ezell
With all the talk about tuners getting heated and such I have been reluctant to even ask what everyone thinks about the mid barrel devices. I have been playing with one and all that I can say for sure is that the groups got smaller as soon as I put it on my barrel. I have my theories as to why but can't substantiate them. I am hoping to better understand what they do and how. What do ya'll think?---Mike
 
Are you talking

....about the Sims De-resonator type attachment?
 
No, but similar. I am using a brass ring about 1.5" od and about 1" long attached to the barrel 6.5" behind the muzzle. ---Mike
 
How does it attach........

....and why at 6.5"?Total weight? Is it being used on a HV or LV with regular barrel contours? Inquiring minds wish to know. Thanks...........Jan
 
I would like to tell you that I knew the exact size and weight but the truth is, I spun it out real fast on a lathe cutting a taper equal to that of the barrel and slid it on. I did so just to see what it did to my groups and didn't even think it would stay on for more than a few shots. That was about 500 rounds ago with no problem with it trying to come off! Go figure. It is a 30 caliber HV barrel. the only thing that I can tell you for certain is that it immediately tightened the groups. The gun was shooting good before but consistantly tighter with it on. i know some of the rimfire guys use them with muzzle tuners. I feel like it is minimizing barrel vibration to some extent. --Mike
 
Why do I use it? Because it works!

Mike,

You're up there with that guy who first ate an oyster - a bloody legend! :cool:
 
I know there are others on here that are using something along the same lines. I would just like to understand better what is going on when this is on the barrel versus without it. I will work with it more as time permits but the season is upon us and time is pretty short. If I understood it better I could likely progress faster with determining ideal weights and locations and the like. I would love to see an FEA analasys of the barrel with such a device. Varmint Al, are you there? Is that a possibility? If no one else offers anything on the subject I will see what happens and keep you posted,good or bad. I love oysters.---Mike
 
I should have mentioned that the gun is a 30 Major(Grendel) and with IMR4227 I can vary the charge weight by at least 1.5 grains (approx. 150fps)and the gun stays in tune, shooting in the .1's with the barrel ring on. I will test it and see how large the window is without it and post the results with some different powders as well as time permits. ---Mike
 
I believe that the mid-barrel tuners create a perpendicular node that counteracts any vertical existing in groups due to velocity variations. This active muzzle situation is the future for all benchrest shooting. :D:D
 
If you believe in the theory that weight must move a node to the muzzle then a weight placed along the barrel could never do this. However if you believe that all a weight has to do is reduce amplitude or frequency then weight added any place along the barrel will work. If you believe that it's the natural vibration that needs to be influenced then you could probably predict the best place to put the weight. This is probably right at the muzzle or perhaps about a third of the way out from the receiver. If you are trying to influence the forced vibration, that is before the bullet leaves, with the added weight, then again right at the muzzle would probably be best, but this would be only a guess since the vibration pattern when forced hasn't been defined.
 
I wonder if it goes back much further than we might think. Look at most old military rifles...Mausers,AR's, etc. They have used stepped barrels for over 100 years. Do ya think that might have some control of barrel vibration or "whip"?---Mike
 
pacecil said:
If you believe in the theory that weight must move a node to the muzzle then a weight placed along the barrel could never do this. However if you believe that all a weight has to do is reduce amplitude or frequency then weight added any place along the barrel will work. If you believe that it's the natural vibration that needs to be influenced then you could probably predict the best place to put the weight. This is probably right at the muzzle or perhaps about a third of the way out from the receiver. If you are trying to influence the forced vibration, that is before the bullet leaves, with the added weight, then again right at the muzzle would probably be best, but this would be only a guess since the vibration pattern when forced hasn't been defined.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder why the rimfire guys using mid barrel tuners put them where they do.
 
Varmint Al said:
I could put a 1" long by 1.5" dia weight on the barrel of Esten's Rifle and see what it does to the Muzzle Projection Curve. It is a 6PPC and I can use his average velocity. Is the front face of the brass weight 6.5" from the muzzle?

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al
coyotel.gif
Click to expand...

The barrel is 19" long from the front of the action. The ring is 1.500" o.d.
x.749 long. The front of the ring is 6.5" from the muzzle. I suspect the length of the ring will make a significant difference.---Mike
 
Mike Ezell,

One of my teachers in gunsmithing school was a dude named Franz Achleithner a third generation German gunsmith with ties all over the Mauser werkes....... he claimed that the steps in the Mauser barrels were completely for expediency in machining.


Actually he didn't "claim" it, he stated it as fact :)


al
 
mwezell said:
I wonder if it goes back much further than we might think. Look at most old military rifles...Mausers,AR's, etc. They have used stepped barrels for over 100 years. Do ya think that might have some control of barrel vibration or "whip"?---Mike
Click to expand...
Back a while I read a theory somewhere that a wave occupied two thirds of the mass of a barrel. Then, I wondered if my old Husqvarna .243 crown grade owed its accuracy to that. The barrel was sort of old style glass bottle shape, big & heavy within the forend, then thinning dramatically towards the muzzle.
 
alinwa said:
Mike Ezell,

One of my teachers in gunsmithing school was a dude named Franz Achleithner a third generation German gunsmith with ties all over the Mauser werkes....... he claimed that the steps in the Mauser barrels were completely for expediency in machining.


Actually he didn't "claim" it, he stated it as fact :)


al
Click to expand...

It may well be just that. I don't doubt it. But do the steps do anything to or for the barrel harmonics? I say they do even if by chance. But I admit that I can't prove it.---Mike
 
Mike,


I do agree that they're bound to have an affect on the harmonics. It'd "stand to reason" that they'd break up the waveforms if nothing else...


al
 
That's where I'm going with the mid barrel tuner. I think that it effectively shortens the barrel by stiffening it in the "right" location.---Mike
 
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