Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

Bahler Bullet Dies

I have a set of Bahler 22 bullet making dies. Don't know much about them. I feel they were made back in the 1950's. Back then these could have been considered BR quality dies. Remember 22 bullet making was King for BR and Varmint shooting way before the 6x47 and the 6 PPC. I make a good amount of 22 cal bullets each year for my BR guns.

They were given to me by Allen Bench back in 2004. Allen said they were made by a guy in the NW and made good bullets. Allen had 8 sets of them, he'd got from estates and shooter friends. Allen had a set that he used to make 22 bullets. The die set is a steel 3 die set -- Core Making die, Core Seating die, and a Point-up die. Allen gave me 5 core seating punches to go with the dies. George do you know anything about the Bahler bullet making dies ?

Gerry I would like to get some Sierra 22 jackets to use in these dies, Allen said they work well with these dies. Do you know who sells the Sierra jackets Gerry or should I call Sierra. I plan on making bullets on these dies to shoot in my 22 cal factory rifles, any info would be of help.

Al thanks for the additional pics on your Blackmon dies. Do you make any other bullets besides 30 cal ?

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Br Bullet making

Stephen you can call sierra and ask about some 705 jackets
These will make bullets in the 50 to 55grweight.
J4 jacket are just fine. you will find they are close to the sierra dimention inside. I have made bullets on my B&A dies in 40 gr 600 J4 jacket and
52 and 56 gr with the 705 J4 I have several punch for core seating.
The B&A i have is a 6ogive. With j4 or a good lot of sierra jackets they make benchrest quality bullets with a .0003 pressure ring at the base.
Maybe george can help with sierra jackets.
 
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Br bullet making

Good post Al Nice photos''''''''''''''' Think i can get Her to help make my bullets?:D
Ok Valentine.
The Blackmon dies work the other way as you can see
The punch on the screw end is in the ram thats the ejection pnch on the core seater.The cored jacket is placed in the die
The die is raised to the punch
Just the oposite of the B+A sets or nemi etc.
Those you place the cored jacket on the punch and raise to the die.
See why i call them upside down dies?
Glad you had a chance to use some sierra jackets. There match quality jackets make great bullets. If you measure them with a ball mic
you will see they are very good. Ball mics work ok but that junkel machine is better. They usually look pretty good on the ball mics though.
Personally i only use the j4's I have used Sierra 22 705 jackets and their 6mm 810 jackets they were very good. {when i could get them].
J4s are pretty easy to get and are Great.

.
 
Br bullet making

Thinking about sierra jackets I just rememberd wally hart may also have afew Its worth a try.
 
Sierra Jackets

Gerry I'll try Sierra and Hart for the 22 jackets. If I can't get them I'll use my J4 22 jackets. Like to save my J4 jackets for my BR bullets though. Thanks for the info Gerry.

Making some 66grn 6mm bullets as we speak. I bought my first J4 jackets in 1999. Back then I weighed my jackets they weighed 22.7 grn. I was only buying a bucket or 2 at a time back then. In 2005 I was able to buy 50,000 6mm jackets as part of a million jacket buy that some bullet makers let me get in on, got the best price back then on a bulk order. Weighed some jackets from the 05 lot they weighed 23.1 grn. I'm speculating the 05 lot of jacket material was of a slightly different composition than the 99 lot giving the .4 grn difference in weight. I adjusted my core weight to make the 66.1 grn bullets my barrel likes. Not a big item but I weigh jackets each time I start with a new lot.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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press

What kind of press do you guys use whats the best bang for the buck?
 
Al Nyhus said:
The jacket is ejected from the die via the internal die punch.

Here's an exploded view of how everything fits together. From left to right:
-Punch holder with core seating punch installed
-Jacket with core inside
-Core seating die
-Internal die punch
-Ejector pin
d1.jpg


Another 'less exploded' view:
d2.jpg


Virgin jacket on the left, jacket with core seated on the right.
j1-1.jpg


You can see that the core seating operation starts to form the base of the jacket into it's flat base configuration. The jacket also shortens as this happens and because the jacket o.d. expands out to the walls of the core seating punch. Just like when you neck up a case..the overall length gets shorter.

If you stick your tongue out the side of your mouth just a little, squint your eyes and cock your head 30 degrees to the right...you can just make out the faint shadow on the jacket that indicates where the core stops. The shadow occurs because the jacket above the 'lead line' hasn't expanded as much as the area below.

Not the greatest pics, but hopefully this helps.
Click to expand...
Thats the same die and punch setup as my presses as far as I can see.
When I core seat I adjust the pressure until the jacket and core come off the punch and stay inside the die as the handle is raised the core seating punch comes away and eventually the base ejection punch takes over and ejects the jacket.
I still can't see how you tell if each core is seated properly with the jacket coming out of the die on the punch. Do you measure every single seated jacket ?
How do you eject the jacket from the punch? As you said previously. The punch seems to have a shoulder on it which is different to mine .
Before anybody gets aggressive . I am not saying it is wrong in any way!
It's just different to what I do so I am trying to understand the difference.
If the base ejector punch pushes on the jacket base after the core seating punch can withdraw then in my system a properly expanded core should make the jacket pull off the punch and stay in the die . The die should have more grip than the punch if the jacket has expanded and the punch diameter is correct.
If my jackets start coming out still stuck to the punch then I either add some pressure or check that the coreseat punch diameter is correct or reduce lube.
 
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akshooter said:
What kind of press do you guys use whats the best bang for the buck?
Click to expand...

You can't buy the presses I use anymore . So for you the best bang for your buck in my opinion would be Corbin's CSP1 S press.
 
Br bullet making

I use the Rockchuckers by RCBS.
I talked to George and he swears by the Lee cast press.
The thing you need to have work well is the linkage set up.
When i first started back when I
used a RCBS jr press.
Others use the Redding.
Best bang for the buck would be the Lee as george said.
I'm satisfied with my rcbs press,s
That corbin press is pretty pricy.
If i were to make this a business venture i would do things different.
 
Even though the Corbin s press is more expensive it is still the best buy beause it is capable of swaging a wider range of bullets than reloading type press can do.
Also it can use harder core alloys if you need to.
It's the kind of press that can grow with you as you might want to swage larger , longer and harder bullets one day than the reloading press can do.
That's why IMO it's the best buy.
RCE has a similar press Walnut Hill I think that is a bit cheaper and it also is a good press. Richard Corbin is a very nice guy and makes a good product but the finnish and design of the original Corbin press is superior in my view .
Purpose made swaging presses have more flexibility than reloading press conversions.
When you consider for me to rebuy all my swaging gear today it would cost about $ 10 000 . So in reality a press with the engineering of the Corbin CSP1 S for $600 is a steel. Without todays CNC machining that press would cost $ 1200 .
 
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J. Valentine said:
I still can't see how you tell if each core is seated properly with the jacket coming out of the die on the punch. Do you measure every single seated jacket ?
Click to expand...

It doesn't stay on the punch. The jacket stays in the die and is ejected via the internal die punch.

Here's the pic again, along with each component from left to right:
-Punch holder with core seating punch installed
-Jacket with core inside
-Core seating die
-Internal die punch
-Ejector pin

Hope it makes sense, now. :) -Al


d1.jpg
 
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Al Nyhus said:
It doesn't stay on the punch. The jacket stays in the die and is ejected via the internal die punch.

Here's the pic again, along with each component from left to right:
-Punch holder with core seating punch installed
-Jacket with core inside
-Core seating die
-Internal die punch
-Ejector pin

Hope it makes sense, now. :) -Al


d1.jpg


Hope it makes sense, now. :) -Al
Click to expand...

Al , This is what you said way back that confused things, "The handle is lifted, the die moves off the jacket and the jacket (now with core seated) is ejected off the seating punch.

With a photo of the jacket still on the punch.

I've been making bullets for 25 years and I knew that did not sound right.
However I was trying to get clarification of the issue in a nice way .

You have now cleared that confusion up thankyou.
 
You're right....sorry for mixing up my terms. :eek:

Thanks for nicely pointing it out. :) -Al

p.s. I'm going to go back and edit that to clear up any further confusion it may cause.
 
The thing I have experienced with bleed by of the core material is that if it is even all around it is hard to tell the difference but if it's on only one side it can cause an accuracy loss.
This is where the point that Gerry made about core fit comes in.
The more gap you have between the jacket wall and the swaged core before you seat the core the further the punch has to travel to fully seat that core and expand the jacket.
The more it has to travel to do it's job the greater diameter change it will see at the jacket walls. So a slight change in the jacket or core weight will usually reqire a different diameter punch.
To get it right is difficult at times if you don't have a lot of different diameter punches to choose from or a way to make a new punch.
We do have to have some gap between the jacket and core to stop air getting trapped .

To stop bleed by I like to get the punch diameter that just touches the jacket walls without cutting into it right at the point that the core is fully seated or maybe a fraction before and then the jacket will stay in the core seating die.
There is no way of knowing that point exactly in advance or putting a quantity on it , when setting up for a new bullet or using a new core weight or even a different brand jacket. So it's a bit of trial and error on the first bullet to find the right punch that does the trick.

Sometimes that requires swaping a few different punches to get the right one .
Once you have the right diameter it will usually be correct for all the same cores weights in the jackets in that batch at least and maybe even in that one brand and style of jacket but not always.
If you buy a set of dies , get the die makers to supply a range of core seating punches that will cover that calber . That way you will have some choices to get you making bullets and not be stuck without the right punch and waiting for new ones to arrive.
You need a range of diameters to try because it is not possible to predict the correct diameter in advance . So ordering one single new punch when you don't have the right one to try is difficult . You may get close but it may still not be perfect. Hope that makes sense.
 
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Br bullet making

As you see most of us have different choices for swaging presses.
If i were to have a comercial venture making bullets the corbin would be one of my choices.
As i looked at his site i think he has some type of press that has a hydrolic system.
Corbin even has a set up for making Jackets if you want to get involved in that.
The end product is the important thing.
Quality bullets you made yourself.
From a start out, stand point Most of the compound 7/8 14 style presses will do.
If you get really hooked and get really into swaging you will find yourself
investing more as you go along.
I had an chance to use a B&A press one time.
George has made a few. That press is a monster to say the least.
It was made of heavy cast steel . both ends had the capabitity to hold a die. The result was Either , Or.
What i mean by this you could have the die in the ram and the top holding the punch like Als set. OR you coud have the punch in the ram and the die in the top.
A counter was mounted on the top also. It kept track of how many bullets . or jackets were made as you went along. This saves the counting later at packaging.
Thats something we havent hit yet.
 
Br bullet making

Packaging Sounds easy '
I use those B36 boxes from midway
Does anyone else have a supplier or different style box?
 
Counting Bullets and Packaging

Gerry
I weigh 100 cut cores, 100 finished cores, and 100 finished bullets. This way I don't have to hand count. If I was selling bullets I would throw a couple extra bullets in free gratis.

Gerry I go to my local 99 cent store and buy plastic boxes to package bullets. These are the food containers they sell. I have one size I buy that holds 300 6mm bullets. If I want to give a guy a box of 100 I have a collection of Berger boxes I saved from my bullet buying days.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Br bullet making

I make bullets for club members
They usually buy at least 500 at a time. I do have burger boxes for samples.
The frankford arsenal boxes midway sells are blue in color.
If you buy the jumbo deal they are about $1 each.

When i run bullets i make two full tops from the j4 jacket [pails .
Thats about 450 to 500 depending on how high i pile them.
In the core forming process i place the core in a jacket and weigh them.
Then they are ready for the seating operation and pointing.
When i'm done i put the bullets in a j4 pail for cleaning.
I wash mine in hot water and rinse. and dry them/
I place some paper towel or other material in the bottom of the boxes and count out 500 . {I have a friend who washes his in alcohol}
I have a nice label machine that i can print labels , quantity and bullet design on.
It works well and the guys like the boxes.
I have seen Allie Eubers Bullets in the same style box.
 
22 bullet die set.

Need help to identify a die set I aquired this winter. They look like B&A but the pic of B&A I saw had a nut at top of die for punch removal, these you have to remove the top hand push (thing) may a different vintage set.
Only identfying marks are on the core seat and pointup die

The fit and finish of these dies is superb. Weren't made by blacksmiths.
Grease on some parts look like rust but not.
Thanks
Larry Sivils




DSCF0633.jpg


DIE INFO
DSCF0632.jpg


POINTUP DIE ASSEMBLY .050 EJECTION WIRE

DSCF0631.jpg


INSIDE VIEW OF POINTUP DIE
DSCF0630.jpg


PUNCH HOLDER ASSEMBLY
DSCF0635.jpg


POINTUP PUNCH HAS A APPROX .015 DEEP RECESS WITH A BEVEL TO REDUCE PRESSURE RING OR SMALL BOATTAIL LIKE EFFECT ???

DSCF0637.jpg
 
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