Bullet failure

Tod Soeby said:
Anyone out there ever have trouble getting the 187 BIB to the 1K target?
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Yes, with a 10-twist, when going over about 3,100 fps. It's heat that does it, so you might get 3,150 with a smaller case, but no guarantees

Never with a 12+ twist -- at least, with a .300 Ackley at 3,200+. Believe Charles Bailey hit 3,400 using a 13-twist in his 300 Ackley & 34- (maybe 36-) inch tube.

What are you pushing them with & through?

Edit:

Since I bought his rifle, I have Joel Pendergraft's notes for his (now only IBS) record 10-shot target:

32" 12-twist Krieger barrel chambered in .300 Ackley,
a hefty charge of Rel-25,
Norma 300 Weatherby case w/ belt turned off,
Fed 210 primer,
187 BIB, using .020 bullet jump,
3,285 velocity at 15 feet instrumental.

This is essentially Alvin Johnson's .300 Ackley reamer (available from PTG), but without a belt
 
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I have Krieger 1-12 twist 300 wsm (less than 130 rounds through it) that I shot at Vaper trail in the morning relay at their first match of the year.....had four in a 5 inch group...8 ring.....DQ!! I didn't figure it was shooter error (who does, right :eek:)..just one of those things, I figured. Fast forward to last weekend.....first group of the morning with my 11 twist 300 wby....three in a 2 1/2 inch group....nine ring....DQ....and in front of my 13 year old future Seal Team SIX member!! :eek: Pretty much ZERO conditions. GUARENTEED BULLET FAILURE!!

Now..these bullets were getting to the 600 yard line in the 12 twist.....and in the limited testing that I have had time for this summer I have had no trouble with either tube...pretty much limited to 740 yards...my limit during farming season. I don't know if getting the tube toasty hot during the sighter period has anything to do with it, but I DO NOT get things to hot during my testing.

I had baught a tube especialy for these pills...baught a bunch of bullets...barrowed a reamer from a gracious fourm member, and had Clay Spencer do the metal work. I am more than a little bummed...had HIGHEST hopes for this combo!!

Tod
 
Dave Tooley did a lot of testing on bullet failure generally, as did Henry Childs. Maybe one of them will correct me if I'm wrong, but if a bullet is going to fail from structural design and twist issues, it is always withing the first 100 yards -- usually within 25 yards. Certainly true for all the rifles I've had or witnessed that blew certain bullets.

Guys will report a "puff of smoke" downrange & tell you your bullet blew. I've had them tell me that, then there were 10 shots in a nice group on my target.

In short, I don't know what's going on.
 
Tod

I've shot the 187's in everything from a 10 to a 14 twist, 3050-3150 FPS and never lost a bullet. Your problem is probably from heat.

Dave
 
Well...looks like I need to drag out my portable bench and streach out my practice sessions/load development/testing to 1K and beat the bbl up a little...temp wise. Should find an answere...I hope!!

Thanks,
Tod
 
dave and tod,
are you speaking of bbl friction heat??
boiling the led core ?
spitting lead and the jacket flying away in the air ??

that kind of heat ???

mike in co
 
mike in co said:
dave and tod,
are you speaking of bbl friction heat??
boiling the led core ?
spitting lead and the jacket flying away in the air ??

that kind of heat ???

mike in co
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Not sure about the mechanics of it all...I just know that the bullets are not getting to the target at one K. I am going to do some more testing before these bullets ever see another match!! Going to streatch out the distance to 1K and get things smokin hot. The answer will be on (or off) the target.

Tod
 
Tod , I have run the 187 since 2003 up to 3375 fps but only in 13 & 13.5 barrels .. No blow ups in thousands of shots .. Try lubing the barrel very lightly with Kroil or with a penetrating fluid for the 1st shot, after that the carbon will take over and do the job .. I use an Australian product called PENETRENE , i leave it in the barrel when not in use but make sure that there is only the barest of a coating just before the 1st sighter .. This reduces the fouling from running a bullet with such a long bearing surface at these high speeds in 32 inch barrels.. May not help but it sure can't hurt ..JR.. Jeff Rogers
 
I would at least try Jeff Rogers suggestion. Joel's HG, my HG, and Charles Bailey's HG were all water-cooled tensioned barrels. They don't get & stay hot, unless you leave them out in the sun.

Jeff's HG, on the other hand, is tension-barreled but without coolant, and boy, that does get hot! Having said that, I've shot a similar construction in a tensioned-barreled LG -- no coolant -- and had no trouble with the BIBs. Or the 300-grain Berger .338s going off with 89 grains of REL-25 behind them, for that matter.

Heat can be hard to track down, but all the failures of the 187 I know of were with barrels with faster than 12 twist, and over 3,150 MV.

You can add Jim Hardy to the success column, he used a .300 WSM with the 187s for a while, too. I shot that rifle in a shootoff with the 210 JLKs, so it couldn't have been slower than a 12-twist, but for details, you'd have to contact Jim.

He did have some trouble with the 155 BIBs in a different rifle, but IIRC, that was in a Palma-diameter barrel -- .298 bore. If your Krieger is one of those, all bets are off.
 
I will give the lightly oiled bore a (re)try.....I ususaly use something from Brownells...FRICTION DEFENDER...I have a small patch that I use over and over....simply put one drop on patch and run it through a freshly cleaned bore. I started doing that during my breakin.....one shot through lightly oiled bore and clean. The last four Kriegers were all "broken in" (as far as copper fouling goes) in two to three shots. I usualy haven't used it since, unless I plan on storing a tube for a while.

I will start my tests with this oil since I don't have any Kriol handy anymore.

Thanks again,
Tod
 
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