bullet above bore's axis...?

sorry, was unable to reply after changing my email address,....thanks Wilber!..now..

OK, the non variables:
Barrel is LOCKED in a block that is recoil proof, or at least won't angle out of line [if any movement, straight back].
Barrel is LEVEL.
Just consider the barrel has NO sights.
I've decided the effects are so minimal that any 'lift' would be caused by factors so small as to be inconsequential.
The effect I was considering is like a toy 'Track Ball' or a baseball curving UP when sent with it's bottom spinning forward. More friction on the bottom and less friction on top as it penetrates air ahead of it's self. Now apply this principle, or effect, to a CROSSWIND hitting a bullet in flilght.
I was wondering if any 'lift' would be created by a crosswind creating more/less friction on the SIDE of a bullet. All forward movement not considered as it shouldn't have any effect on the cross wind effects.

I've solved this pretty easily. I stopped thinking about it and poured some Glenmorangie in a glass with a few small ice cubes. Now it doesn't seem so important....LOL~!
Anyway I web searched this topic of 'any' effect on a bullet causing it to have 'lift'. Spiral and yawl were common topics of discussion, but probably just modify the falling trajectory of the bullet.....sip.....sip.

Conversations on this topic caused some consternation on some forums, so, for now let's just ponder it and think: 'wow, that's amazing' LOL.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A curve ball is due to the Magnus effect, which also effects bullets. But spin drift is usually more important for bullets.
 
It sounds like a good experiment for our 300m tunnel when it comes back on line. Mann accuracy barrel and mount set level. Target paper marked with a transit. Track bullet with Weibel radar.
 
BTW: correction....

It would take a crosswind from the LEFT to cause bullet to rise, same right twist bullet.
Left wind effect: bullet goes UP and RIGHT.
Wind from right: bullet goes left and down.
 
Alaninga said:
It would take a crosswind from the LEFT to cause bullet to rise, same right twist bullet.
Left wind effect: bullet goes UP and RIGHT.
Wind from right: bullet goes left and down.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that?
 
Oh heck no... : )

But easier to consider the bullet stable in one spot, spinning from rifling. Right spin as viewed from behind (shooter's view). Crosswind from left side encounters more friction from bottom of bullet spinning TOWARD IT as it travels around bullet. Crosswind from left encounters less friction that travels over bullet's surface that is spinning AWAY from it. Lift occurs as bullet moves to area of less friction, just like a baseball or 'Trackball'. 'Trackball' is thrown by a curved plastic device that imparts maximum spin to the light, rough surface toy ball.... Fun toy.
Now of course the bullet IS traveling forward, but if I remember correctly from physics(?), the wind still can have effect on the bullet.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alaninga said:
But easier to consider the bullet stable in one spot, spinning from rifling. Right spin as viewed from behind (shooter's view). Crosswind from left side encounters more friction from bottom of bullet spinning TOWARD IT as it travels around bullet. Crosswind from left encounters less friction that travels over bullet's surface that is spinning AWAY from it. Lift occurs as bullet moves to area of less friction, just like a baseball or 'Trackball'. 'Trackball' is thrown by a curved plastic device that imparts maximum spin to the light, rough surface toy ball.... Fun toy.
Now of course the bullet IS traveling forward, but if I remember correctly from physics(?), the wind still can have effect on the bullet.
Click to expand...

Great, you did a good job of describing the Magnus effect. (http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig9.htm) The trouble is, bullets do the opposite - they rise in response to wind from the RIGHT. Why? The gyroscopic effect. (http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig8.htm) Form a plane with your right hand with your thumb perpendicular to your fingers. Point your fingers in the direction of bullet travel and your palm in the direction the wind is blowing (a right wind blows to the left, so face your palm left). By the right hand rule, the nose of the gyroscopic bullet will tilt in the direction of your thumb (upward for a right wind). The nose-high bullet has greater aerodynamic force on its bottom, which creates lift. Check out the website that Joe provided. It will give you hours of distraction!;)
 
This chart is WRONG. Please take a close look at the huge jumps from 6 to 7 o'clock and 12 to 1 o'clock. Not realistic at all. The other clock positions aren't much better. Tony Boyer has a good chart in his book.
 
Bullets do two things when they leave the barrel (maybe many more on the way to the target) they slow down and go down. What more is needed? It answers the original question of this thread.
Bill
 
Bill

It is a good question, and the answer not so easy, given that the Magnus effect and spin drift can both cause lift.

Cheers,
Keith
 
my family has been well aquainted with my inquizitiveness........

....the joke around here is my response to statements made by friends and family: "What do you base that on?" : )

Yeah, known for arguing a point and even pointless debate.

: )
 
Wouldn't the bullet be far enough down range, and a lot lower than the bore line, that any lift from a side wind couldn't make the bullet rise back above the bore line?
 
Rick4070 said:
Wouldn't the bullet be far enough down range, and a lot lower than the bore line, that any lift from a side wind couldn't make the bullet rise back above the bore line?
Click to expand...

The effects, including lift, begin as soon as the bullet leaves the muzzle. There is not a delay until the bullet is down range. So it is a matter of determining which effect is strongest from the very beginning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top